1 00:00:02,933 --> 00:00:05,333 I grew up in Mississippi. 2 00:00:05,334 --> 00:00:08,333 In my neighborhood, everyone was black. 3 00:00:08,334 --> 00:00:12,399 Day-to-day, I didn't see overt signs of segregation, 4 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:18,132 but when I went up-town, it was a different story. 5 00:00:18,133 --> 00:00:21,433 There's no bus service here no more. 6 00:00:21,434 --> 00:00:29,434 But when I was a boy, I was only allowed into one of these doors. 7 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,067 One said White; one said Colored. 8 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:42,266 As a kid, when you're confronted with an evil like racism, 9 00:00:42,267 --> 00:00:45,632 your first reaction is confusion. 10 00:00:45,633 --> 00:00:48,299 Why does this exist? 11 00:00:55,533 --> 00:00:58,565 For all of our capacity to do good, 12 00:00:58,566 --> 00:01:02,167 the urge to do evil has plagued human history. 13 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:14,233 If you believe we live in a world under divine control, 14 00:01:14,234 --> 00:01:16,665 why should evil exist at all? 15 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,932 So I'm going on a journey, 16 00:01:23,933 --> 00:01:27,366 to try to understand why evil exists. 17 00:01:27,367 --> 00:01:28,366 I know what you did. 18 00:01:28,367 --> 00:01:30,532 My question is, can you tell me why? 19 00:01:32,867 --> 00:01:35,599 To discover how it invades our lives. 20 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,299 People who believe that they are possessed 21 00:01:37,300 --> 00:01:39,565 by an evil spirit can come here. 22 00:01:39,566 --> 00:01:43,032 How evil first stole our hearts. 23 00:01:43,033 --> 00:01:45,066 If you're lying, or doing anything evil, 24 00:01:45,067 --> 00:01:47,032 Your heart get heavy, and with a heavy heart, 25 00:01:47,033 --> 00:01:48,899 you're not gonna go to heaven. 26 00:01:48,900 --> 00:01:52,699 And I'll see how some religions train us to fight the Devil. 27 00:01:52,700 --> 00:01:54,299 You have two mentalities. 28 00:01:54,300 --> 00:01:56,765 One is good, and one is bad. 29 00:01:56,766 --> 00:01:58,599 To turn the darkness, 30 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,699 I did some incredibly terrible things. 31 00:02:01,700 --> 00:02:03,565 Into light. 32 00:02:03,566 --> 00:02:06,466 You represent the hope of the world. 33 00:02:20,700 --> 00:02:23,233 To understand why evil exists, 34 00:02:23,234 --> 00:02:27,099 we have to know where it comes from. 35 00:02:27,100 --> 00:02:30,532 Some faiths see it as an unseen force that pervades 36 00:02:30,533 --> 00:02:32,565 the entire world. 37 00:02:32,566 --> 00:02:35,665 Demons that lurk in the darkness. 38 00:02:35,666 --> 00:02:39,765 For Christianity, it could be the Devil himself. 39 00:02:39,766 --> 00:02:44,266 Or, is evil something that comes from inside us? 40 00:02:48,367 --> 00:02:52,199 So, I'm travelling to a maximum security prison, 41 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:57,399 to meet a man you could call evil incarnate. 42 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,366 So Kent, have you ever come face-to-face with evil? 43 00:03:00,367 --> 00:03:02,932 I've met some people who've done some very bad things 44 00:03:02,933 --> 00:03:05,565 Neuroscientist Dr. Kent Kiehl is trying 45 00:03:05,566 --> 00:03:09,599 to pinpoint the source of evil, inside the brains 46 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,600 of psychopathic killers. 47 00:03:13,467 --> 00:03:15,732 I wanted to try to understand why people do 48 00:03:15,733 --> 00:03:17,299 really bad things. 49 00:03:17,300 --> 00:03:19,800 And how to, how to help prevent it someday. 50 00:03:22,500 --> 00:03:23,100 Thank you. 51 00:03:25,900 --> 00:03:28,765 I'm about to meet one of Dr. Kiehl's most notorious 52 00:03:28,766 --> 00:03:29,867 subjects. 53 00:03:32,933 --> 00:03:35,267 He's serving a life sentence here. 54 00:03:36,867 --> 00:03:40,566 His attorney tells me this man raped more than two dozen women, 55 00:03:42,967 --> 00:03:44,467 And murdered three. 56 00:03:54,500 --> 00:03:58,266 He's been in jail almost since he was a teenager, 57 00:03:58,267 --> 00:04:00,132 except for very short spurts 58 00:04:00,133 --> 00:04:01,732 where, when he would get out of jail, 59 00:04:01,733 --> 00:04:04,999 he would go back to the same behavior of raping, 60 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,599 and eventually it evolved into murder. 61 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,599 Did he confess to these? 62 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,100 He confessed to all of 'em. 63 00:04:14,067 --> 00:04:15,899 I'm not going to show you his face, 64 00:04:15,900 --> 00:04:18,499 because I don't want to give any more notoriety to the man 65 00:04:18,500 --> 00:04:22,132 who committed these atrocities. 66 00:04:22,133 --> 00:04:26,800 But I want to know what can make someone do what he did? 67 00:04:27,833 --> 00:04:28,665 Do you know who I am? 68 00:04:28,666 --> 00:04:30,632 Yes. 69 00:04:30,633 --> 00:04:32,032 - I - know what you did. 70 00:04:32,033 --> 00:04:34,367 My question is, can you tell me why? 71 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,466 It was a spur-of-the-moment thing. 72 00:04:41,467 --> 00:04:42,966 Each time? 73 00:04:42,967 --> 00:04:49,132 I didn't have any plan to go out and snatch anybody. 74 00:04:49,133 --> 00:04:52,599 Commit any sexual violence against anybody. 75 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:59,665 I had a desire, an impulse, and I wasn't able to stop myself 76 00:04:59,666 --> 00:05:04,932 from acting on that impulse. 77 00:05:04,933 --> 00:05:11,433 Let me ask you, about what age did you start? 78 00:05:11,434 --> 00:05:14,466 Back when I was 21 or 22. 79 00:05:14,467 --> 00:05:16,632 I was out looking for something to steal, 80 00:05:16,633 --> 00:05:22,899 and I just spotted a teacher, who had stayed late, 81 00:05:22,900 --> 00:05:28,266 so I decided to rob her, kidnap her, and rape her. 82 00:05:28,267 --> 00:05:32,932 I just pulled over on a access road, and she fought back, 83 00:05:32,933 --> 00:05:38,866 slipped through the door, and I just turned around and, 84 00:05:38,867 --> 00:05:40,899 took off. 85 00:05:40,900 --> 00:05:44,199 When did you first kill? 86 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:45,832 Going on 27. 87 00:05:45,833 --> 00:05:50,532 I was going out to commit a burglary, and, 88 00:05:50,533 --> 00:05:53,433 the crime happened. 89 00:05:53,434 --> 00:05:54,800 Kidnaped, raped, and murdered? 90 00:05:57,733 --> 00:06:01,233 Yeah. 91 00:06:01,234 --> 00:06:03,366 I, I'm looking for the correct term. 92 00:06:03,367 --> 00:06:05,967 It, it, it isn't guilt, it's remorse. Remorse. 93 00:06:07,867 --> 00:06:09,766 Did you ever experience that that you know of? 94 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,132 I don't see emotions like everybody else. 95 00:06:18,133 --> 00:06:21,233 I don't feel. 96 00:06:21,234 --> 00:06:24,632 There was no, remorse. 97 00:06:24,633 --> 00:06:31,132 I think that I'm not wired the same as everybody else. 98 00:06:31,133 --> 00:06:32,434 - So, Kent. - Yeah. 99 00:06:35,267 --> 00:06:37,066 Is this psychopathic? 100 00:06:37,067 --> 00:06:40,632 In psychiatry we have a way of assessing what we call 101 00:06:40,633 --> 00:06:44,233 psychopathy or psychopathic personality disorder, 102 00:06:44,234 --> 00:06:46,699 and the lack of empathy, the impulse control, 103 00:06:46,700 --> 00:06:52,532 the poor planning, His scores are in the 99th percentile. 104 00:06:52,533 --> 00:06:55,032 What makes a person evil? 105 00:06:55,033 --> 00:06:59,399 Kent has scanned the brains of 800 psychopathic criminals. 106 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:03,399 This prisoner is the most extreme case he's ever seen. 107 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,599 So this is a standard MRI scan. 108 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,466 It looks pretty normal when you run through the MRI scan. 109 00:07:08,467 --> 00:07:10,966 But what we did is quantify all the different areas 110 00:07:10,967 --> 00:07:13,732 of his brain, and to try to understand how dense are they? 111 00:07:13,733 --> 00:07:16,032 How strong are they, basically? 112 00:07:16,033 --> 00:07:17,966 This area of the orbital frontal cortex, 113 00:07:17,967 --> 00:07:20,266 it's very important for the formation of personality, 114 00:07:20,267 --> 00:07:24,132 for the control of impulses, for regulating behavior. 115 00:07:24,133 --> 00:07:27,366 These three bars that I show here this is the average inmate, 116 00:07:27,367 --> 00:07:29,233 this is other individuals that we call 117 00:07:29,234 --> 00:07:32,032 psychopaths in the red bar, and you can see that he is, 118 00:07:32,033 --> 00:07:33,466 he's really reduced. 119 00:07:33,467 --> 00:07:35,433 He really does have a different brain. 120 00:07:35,434 --> 00:07:38,433 And so he, he really does fit that 99th percentile. 121 00:07:38,434 --> 00:07:40,800 He's, you know, one-in-a-million, actually. 122 00:07:43,467 --> 00:07:44,433 One-in-a-million? 123 00:07:44,434 --> 00:07:47,765 He's very rare. 124 00:07:47,766 --> 00:07:53,966 You've been in prison now for, what, 30 years? 125 00:07:53,967 --> 00:07:57,899 - Yep. - Long time. 126 00:07:57,900 --> 00:08:02,499 What if I said I have a way to get you out? 127 00:08:02,500 --> 00:08:03,400 Would you wanna go? 128 00:08:07,267 --> 00:08:11,532 I'd wanna go, but since I did commit those crimes, 129 00:08:11,533 --> 00:08:14,932 I still have that, 130 00:08:14,933 --> 00:08:18,499 - Impulse... - Capacity. 131 00:08:18,500 --> 00:08:20,599 Society wouldn't be safe. 132 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,999 I don't have the same controls as you do, 133 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,666 or somebody else does. 134 00:08:30,967 --> 00:08:33,333 This is an evil man. 135 00:08:33,334 --> 00:08:36,832 Evil personified. 136 00:08:36,833 --> 00:08:41,466 Neuroscientists say that his behavior is a result of 137 00:08:41,467 --> 00:08:44,499 bad neural wiring. 138 00:08:44,500 --> 00:08:52,500 But the question is, even so, does he not still have a choice? 139 00:08:55,133 --> 00:09:00,867 Can he choose not to commit a heinous crime? 140 00:09:03,367 --> 00:09:08,565 Psychopaths are at the extreme of human behavior. 141 00:09:08,566 --> 00:09:14,765 But we all face the choice to do good or do evil. 142 00:09:14,766 --> 00:09:19,233 And for thousands of years, we've battled those urges. 143 00:09:34,434 --> 00:09:38,433 I've come to Luxor, capital of ancient Egypt. 144 00:09:38,434 --> 00:09:41,832 Egyptologist Salima Ikram is going to show me one of 145 00:09:41,833 --> 00:09:44,366 the oldest depictions of our struggle to choose 146 00:09:44,367 --> 00:09:46,399 between good and evil. 147 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:48,199 So, right over there? 148 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:49,665 Yes. 149 00:09:49,666 --> 00:09:53,066 All the east, and to the part on the other side of the Nile, 150 00:09:53,067 --> 00:09:56,000 east of the Nile, was always the land of the living. 151 00:09:58,133 --> 00:10:03,932 And then over here, you have the land of the dead, on the west. 152 00:10:03,933 --> 00:10:06,565 Literally. All those are tombs. 153 00:10:06,566 --> 00:10:08,932 Yep. All of those are tombs, 154 00:10:08,933 --> 00:10:11,833 and I want to show you one in particular. 155 00:10:12,700 --> 00:10:15,099 These are the tombs of the nobles, 156 00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:18,032 just around the corner from the Valley of the Kings, 157 00:10:18,033 --> 00:10:23,433 where Tutankhamun was buried more than 3 millennia ago. 158 00:10:23,434 --> 00:10:25,099 So here's the tomb of Menna. 159 00:10:25,100 --> 00:10:26,932 Menna. 160 00:10:26,933 --> 00:10:27,866 Here we go. 161 00:10:41,067 --> 00:10:42,233 Look at that! 162 00:10:42,234 --> 00:10:43,999 There we are. 163 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:49,199 That's Menna, over there, and he was a scribe for the god Amun, 164 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:53,199 and he oversaw the lands of the god Amun, and also over here, 165 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,665 you can see this big harvest that he's checking out. 166 00:10:56,666 --> 00:10:58,399 It's great. 167 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,866 They're harvesting their, wheat. 168 00:11:01,867 --> 00:11:07,366 This artwork is 3,500 years old? 169 00:11:07,367 --> 00:11:14,099 Yep. 1370 B.C. And it hasn't been touched-up. 170 00:11:14,100 --> 00:11:15,066 Those are his scribes. 171 00:11:15,067 --> 00:11:16,266 Those are his, 172 00:11:16,267 --> 00:11:17,699 He's overseeing the scribes. 173 00:11:17,700 --> 00:11:18,866 Precisely. 174 00:11:18,867 --> 00:11:21,999 A-ha, ha, ha. And, 175 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:23,499 When I get back to the States, 176 00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:25,499 I'm gonna be a hieroglyphic expert. 177 00:11:25,500 --> 00:11:27,832 You are, indeed. 178 00:11:27,833 --> 00:11:32,799 Now, let me show you a little something, 179 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:37,565 about how Menna gets to go to the afterlife. 180 00:11:37,566 --> 00:11:40,299 Menna's tomb includes a remarkable feature 181 00:11:40,300 --> 00:11:43,333 that Salima tells me I have to see. 182 00:11:46,533 --> 00:11:49,399 A scene where Menna would be judged on the balance 183 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,866 of good and evil he had done. 184 00:11:52,867 --> 00:11:55,366 This all funerary procession, 185 00:11:55,367 --> 00:11:57,532 Okay. 186 00:11:57,533 --> 00:12:00,732 You can see his coffin being brought here. 187 00:12:00,733 --> 00:12:01,799 That's his coffin, there? 188 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,999 That's his coffin. 189 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,799 And then he's brought here, finally, 190 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,866 in front of the god Osiris. 191 00:12:15,100 --> 00:12:17,233 This is Menna. 192 00:12:17,234 --> 00:12:20,699 And then here, you have a complete innovation. 193 00:12:20,700 --> 00:12:22,832 It's the first time you'll ever see this, really, 194 00:12:22,833 --> 00:12:27,966 in a private tomb, and that is the weighing of the heart scene. 195 00:12:27,967 --> 00:12:30,899 And here he is being judged, 196 00:12:30,900 --> 00:12:34,032 to see if he was good or if he was evil. 197 00:12:37,100 --> 00:12:38,499 In front of Osiris, 198 00:12:38,500 --> 00:12:41,832 the god of the Underworld, Menna's heart is weighed against 199 00:12:41,833 --> 00:12:44,334 the goddess of truth, Ma'at. 200 00:12:46,700 --> 00:12:51,565 While Thoth, her husband, writes down the judgment. 201 00:12:51,566 --> 00:12:54,299 So it's almost as if, it's a Cliff Note for him. 202 00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:56,732 Gotcha. 203 00:12:56,733 --> 00:12:58,966 Cliff Notes! 204 00:12:58,967 --> 00:13:01,233 So, if you're lying, or stealing, or cheating, 205 00:13:01,234 --> 00:13:04,632 or doing anything evil, the whole thing is the fact that 206 00:13:04,633 --> 00:13:05,899 it reflects on your heart. 207 00:13:05,900 --> 00:13:06,966 All of that weighs on your heart, 208 00:13:06,967 --> 00:13:08,299 your heart gets heavy... 209 00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:09,665 - I - have a heavy heart. 210 00:13:09,666 --> 00:13:10,799 Yes. 211 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,132 And with a heavy heart, 212 00:13:12,133 --> 00:13:13,466 - you're not gonna go to heaven. - That's right. 213 00:13:13,467 --> 00:13:15,966 He won't be able to have lift-off, basically. 214 00:13:15,967 --> 00:13:19,399 Just, Good, Well-put! 215 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:24,466 So in this depiction, his heart is indeed in balance, 216 00:13:24,467 --> 00:13:25,565 Right? 217 00:13:25,566 --> 00:13:26,399 Right. 218 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:27,832 So he's cool. 219 00:13:27,833 --> 00:13:29,832 - Totally cool. - Alright. 220 00:13:29,833 --> 00:13:31,999 Good to go into the afterlife. 221 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,299 You would think that that would be 222 00:13:34,300 --> 00:13:36,499 the beginning, at least, somehow, 223 00:13:36,500 --> 00:13:40,532 of the Judeo-Christian ethic, as it were, 224 00:13:40,533 --> 00:13:43,166 in terms of good and evil. 225 00:13:43,167 --> 00:13:45,765 Basically, I think that modern religion has its roots 226 00:13:45,766 --> 00:13:47,699 in this idea of morality, 227 00:13:47,700 --> 00:13:50,932 and that anything bad you do is reflected 228 00:13:50,933 --> 00:13:52,699 and can be judged in some way. 229 00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:54,565 The Egyptians were very literal. 230 00:13:54,566 --> 00:13:56,699 They said you can judge it by your heart. 231 00:13:56,700 --> 00:13:58,765 But even now, when, you know, you can say, 232 00:13:58,766 --> 00:14:01,399 He is pure of heart, it means he's a good person. 233 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,099 Right. Right. 234 00:14:03,100 --> 00:14:05,266 In the centuries after Menna, 235 00:14:05,267 --> 00:14:09,099 the idea of eternal reward for turning one's back on evil 236 00:14:09,100 --> 00:14:12,532 spread throughout Egyptian society. 237 00:14:12,533 --> 00:14:17,366 And from there, it may have fed into Judaism, Christianity, 238 00:14:17,367 --> 00:14:18,565 and Islam. 239 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,132 The weighing of the heart assumes that fear 240 00:14:34,133 --> 00:14:36,565 of consequences is the only thing that keeps us 241 00:14:36,566 --> 00:14:38,832 on a righteous path. 242 00:14:38,833 --> 00:14:44,699 Which makes me wonder, Are we inherently good. 243 00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:46,433 Or inherently evil? 244 00:14:50,133 --> 00:14:52,732 In fact, that question is at the very root 245 00:14:52,733 --> 00:14:54,333 of the Christian faith. 246 00:14:56,900 --> 00:15:01,199 The early leaders of the church trace our tendency to sin 247 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:05,333 back to Adam and Eve, who ate the forbidden fruit 248 00:15:05,334 --> 00:15:06,700 original sin. 249 00:15:20,067 --> 00:15:23,132 I've come to meet Baptist Reverend and theologian 250 00:15:23,133 --> 00:15:27,199 Kutter Callaway, to find out whether original sin means 251 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,266 we are all evil at heart. 252 00:15:30,267 --> 00:15:31,433 Hi. Pleasure to meet you. 253 00:15:31,434 --> 00:15:32,632 Thank you. 254 00:15:32,633 --> 00:15:33,399 Have a seat. 255 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:34,800 Thank you. 256 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,632 Which book were you reading? 257 00:15:38,633 --> 00:15:40,266 The first few chapters of Genesis. 258 00:15:40,267 --> 00:15:42,032 That is exactly what I'm gonna talk about, 259 00:15:42,033 --> 00:15:47,565 and what I'm wanna talk about is, sin. 260 00:15:47,566 --> 00:15:52,966 What is original sin? 261 00:15:52,967 --> 00:15:54,799 Well, it's a good question. 262 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,132 The Christian tradition, it kinda coined original sin. 263 00:15:58,133 --> 00:16:01,132 Some primal desire that we all have, 264 00:16:01,133 --> 00:16:04,333 that's a very basic human urge or impulse. 265 00:16:04,334 --> 00:16:08,866 Because Adam sinned, that original sin was passed on 266 00:16:08,867 --> 00:16:11,799 from one generation to the next - perpetuated, 267 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:16,266 generation after generation after generation. 268 00:16:16,267 --> 00:16:21,166 I have recently spent some time with a person 269 00:16:21,167 --> 00:16:26,433 who we could say personifies, REV. - 270 00:16:26,434 --> 00:16:27,999 Evil. I needed to say 271 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,299 why did you do these things? 272 00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:32,932 And he would say, I just felt like it. 273 00:16:32,933 --> 00:16:36,099 And beyond that, I don't know. 274 00:16:36,100 --> 00:16:39,367 Now that's inherent, evil. Well, isn't it? 275 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:42,765 What you saw, 276 00:16:42,766 --> 00:16:46,466 you could name that as a sort of demonic thing. 277 00:16:46,467 --> 00:16:48,832 This is demonic. 278 00:16:48,833 --> 00:16:50,233 It's demonic. 279 00:16:50,234 --> 00:16:54,399 But, I think it's important for us to acknowledge that, 280 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,266 that there is a little bit of him in all of us. 281 00:16:57,267 --> 00:17:02,832 There's something inherent in us that seems to bend itself 282 00:17:02,833 --> 00:17:06,433 towards death and violence. 283 00:17:06,434 --> 00:17:07,333 Is there a Devil? 284 00:17:07,334 --> 00:17:09,866 Or is that just a metaphor? 285 00:17:09,867 --> 00:17:16,599 It is a metaphor, and also, the Devil is real. 286 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,832 There's a lot of different forms - you know, 287 00:17:19,833 --> 00:17:24,999 Devils with pitchforks to goblins and ghouls, etc. 288 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,199 In the New Testament, you even get Jesus interacting with 289 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:29,899 Satan, and yet at the same time, 290 00:17:29,900 --> 00:17:33,665 you have Jesus talking to one of his disciples, 291 00:17:33,666 --> 00:17:37,665 and saying at one point, Get behind me, Satan. 292 00:17:37,666 --> 00:17:43,066 So it seems even Jesus is dealing with both a, a, 293 00:17:43,067 --> 00:17:47,066 an actual presence - what, what we might say is a personified 294 00:17:47,067 --> 00:17:52,765 evil, or, And at the same time, that we can be satanic, demonic, 295 00:17:52,766 --> 00:17:57,833 in, in our own desire to steer away from what God wants. 296 00:18:00,867 --> 00:18:05,599 We are born with the capacity for evil inside us. 297 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,399 Most of us struggle our whole lives to resist the temptation 298 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,799 to do wrong. 299 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,699 But that could be another source of evil in our lives, 300 00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:17,499 the people who brought us into this world. 301 00:18:17,500 --> 00:18:20,266 My dad was an alcoholic. 302 00:18:20,267 --> 00:18:22,700 Whether they are living, or dead. 303 00:18:25,567 --> 00:18:28,332 Why does evil exist in the world? 304 00:18:28,333 --> 00:18:31,599 Is it because we all have evil inside us, 305 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,600 or does it come from somewhere else? 306 00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:46,999 I've travelled to India to understand what Hindus believe 307 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:51,265 is a source of evil the unhappy souls 308 00:18:51,266 --> 00:18:52,800 of their ancestors. 309 00:18:53,900 --> 00:18:58,799 I'm in the city of Varanasi to visit the temple Pishach Mochan, 310 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,566 where exorcisms go on all day long. 311 00:19:07,433 --> 00:19:10,966 My guide, Varanasi resident and educator, 312 00:19:10,967 --> 00:19:16,732 V.A. Vidya, introduces me to the head priest, 313 00:19:16,733 --> 00:19:19,899 and to see the goblin, or Pischach, 314 00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:21,800 who is said to live here. 315 00:19:22,733 --> 00:19:25,432 So there is the goblin, For 15 years, 316 00:19:25,433 --> 00:19:30,000 just wandering around in pain, so he finally prayed to Shiva. 317 00:19:38,067 --> 00:19:40,232 The great Hindu god, Shiva, 318 00:19:40,233 --> 00:19:42,999 puts the goblin through a purifying ritual which ends 319 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,899 with a dip in the nearby pond. 320 00:19:45,900 --> 00:19:49,899 That instantly cures him of his disease. 321 00:19:49,900 --> 00:19:53,799 In return, Shiva orders the goblin to protect people 322 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,333 near the pond from any other evil spirits. 323 00:20:01,167 --> 00:20:04,799 Now Shiva asks, Okay, you are cured, 324 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,966 so you are going to help all the people who suffer 325 00:20:07,967 --> 00:20:10,432 being possessed by evil. 326 00:20:10,433 --> 00:20:11,899 So this is a benign goblin. 327 00:20:11,900 --> 00:20:13,567 Yes. He's a benign goblin. 328 00:20:16,233 --> 00:20:19,766 Now this pond has become a place of healing. 329 00:20:19,767 --> 00:20:23,265 A haven for people who feel their lives are haunted 330 00:20:23,266 --> 00:20:25,599 by an evil presence. 331 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:26,966 So here, you, Look at the water. 332 00:20:26,967 --> 00:20:28,933 It's brackish, but people believe that something is going 333 00:20:28,934 --> 00:20:32,399 Brackish? Is that a term for it? 334 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:33,866 Yeah. 335 00:20:33,867 --> 00:20:38,432 So you know the typical theme is water cleanses everything. 336 00:20:38,433 --> 00:20:39,265 Okay. 337 00:20:39,266 --> 00:20:41,067 I'm gonna, I'm gonna buy that! 338 00:20:47,633 --> 00:20:50,799 Hindus believe that when someone's death is traumatic 339 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:54,232 or unhappy, their soul can become angry, 340 00:20:54,233 --> 00:20:58,232 and haunt the lives of their children or other relatives. 341 00:20:58,233 --> 00:21:00,966 This can cause mental or physical illness 342 00:21:00,967 --> 00:21:03,134 even financial troubles. 343 00:21:07,333 --> 00:21:09,933 The correct rituals, however, 344 00:21:09,934 --> 00:21:14,100 can liberate the unhappy soul and free the living. 345 00:21:19,733 --> 00:21:21,399 What's going on over there? 346 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,033 That's the Shaman. He is preparing, 347 00:21:23,034 --> 00:21:24,632 - He's exorcising? - Yes. 348 00:21:27,767 --> 00:21:30,999 Their conversation, no-one can understand. It's done in a, 349 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,133 What, they're speaking in tongues? 350 00:21:32,134 --> 00:21:34,233 He's speaking in tongues, yes. 351 00:21:38,667 --> 00:21:40,832 And then the patient responds - either screams, 352 00:21:40,833 --> 00:21:42,699 or responds in tongues. 353 00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:45,133 Or they have spasms. 354 00:21:45,134 --> 00:21:48,000 And then finally they believe that it's released. 355 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,133 Most of the people who come here don't need 356 00:22:00,134 --> 00:22:03,700 a full-on exorcism like this man. 357 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,666 The Shukla family are typical clients. 358 00:22:11,667 --> 00:22:14,599 They are having money troubles, and they worry that the spirits 359 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,100 of their ancestors may be the cause. 360 00:22:20,667 --> 00:22:23,033 This is a departure ritual, 361 00:22:23,034 --> 00:22:25,265 for the spirit that is wandering around. 362 00:22:27,767 --> 00:22:29,365 What gives you the impression, 363 00:22:29,366 --> 00:22:31,599 what makes one think 364 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,399 my parents' spirits are not settled? 365 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,799 I think personal troubles. 366 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:38,666 If them, something is causing them trouble, 367 00:22:38,667 --> 00:22:40,899 whenever there's a financial loss in the family, 368 00:22:40,900 --> 00:22:44,166 and frequent sicknesses, bad dreams, and, 369 00:22:44,167 --> 00:22:47,200 so everything is associated with this procession home. 370 00:22:51,466 --> 00:22:54,332 To make their ancestors' spirits happy, 371 00:22:54,333 --> 00:22:57,832 the Shuklas must prepare them a good meal, 372 00:22:57,833 --> 00:23:00,300 one that is blessed by the priest. 373 00:23:01,833 --> 00:23:06,365 They offer honey, clarified butter, banana, 374 00:23:06,366 --> 00:23:08,632 fruits, and everything. 375 00:23:08,633 --> 00:23:11,499 And this would be offered to dead soul, 376 00:23:11,500 --> 00:23:14,366 which is gonna eat the food, so this will be a special meal. 377 00:23:18,466 --> 00:23:20,933 After receiving all the food, they offer a lamp, 378 00:23:20,934 --> 00:23:23,465 and an umbrella, and a pair of shoes. 379 00:23:23,466 --> 00:23:28,099 So here, every departed soul is fitted like a real human being. 380 00:23:28,100 --> 00:23:29,566 - Is spoken... - The spirit? 381 00:23:29,567 --> 00:23:32,399 Yes. The spirit is treated like a real human being. 382 00:23:36,667 --> 00:23:38,399 The ancestors receive what they need 383 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,099 for their journey in the afterlife. 384 00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:46,499 After the Shuklas offer the food to the sacred pond, 385 00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:49,766 and nail a coin to this holy tree, 386 00:23:53,833 --> 00:23:58,033 The unhappy souls of their ancestors are set free, 387 00:23:58,034 --> 00:24:01,033 and the shadow of evil lifts. 388 00:24:19,900 --> 00:24:23,832 In Christianity, You've got the Devil, and you've got God; 389 00:24:23,833 --> 00:24:26,766 you've got good, you've got evil. 390 00:24:26,767 --> 00:24:32,133 Don't seem to have that going on in Hinduism. 391 00:24:32,134 --> 00:24:35,465 In Hinduism, there's no dichotomy between 392 00:24:35,466 --> 00:24:40,166 good and evil - the same person can become good an evil. 393 00:24:40,167 --> 00:24:44,066 In a temple like this, even the evil is treated 394 00:24:44,067 --> 00:24:48,099 very respectfully, and is treated caringly. 395 00:24:48,100 --> 00:24:49,799 That's very interesting. 396 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,265 Very interesting concept. 397 00:24:51,266 --> 00:24:54,499 Because I think it sort of frees us up to be better. 398 00:24:54,500 --> 00:24:56,532 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 399 00:24:56,533 --> 00:24:59,899 It, There's always, at the end, the hope. 400 00:24:59,900 --> 00:25:03,599 The hope that even the evil can be liberated. 401 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,933 And evil can be purified, like taking a dip into the pond. 402 00:25:12,034 --> 00:25:14,966 So I've been watching people at, 403 00:25:14,967 --> 00:25:18,499 in these temples - I mean, crowds of people - doing ritual 404 00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:21,232 after ritual, trying to stay in the good graces of their 405 00:25:21,233 --> 00:25:22,866 ancestors. 406 00:25:22,867 --> 00:25:27,732 But the thing about it is, evil is not spurned. 407 00:25:27,733 --> 00:25:32,265 Evil is thought of as a spirit that needs help. 408 00:25:32,266 --> 00:25:36,366 Just, needs to find peace. 409 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:39,766 Cool! 410 00:25:43,733 --> 00:25:48,232 Hindus want to guide people into the common good. 411 00:25:48,233 --> 00:25:53,632 That idea is also the basis of another faith. 412 00:25:53,633 --> 00:25:56,566 One of the oldest and most influential religions 413 00:25:56,567 --> 00:25:57,799 in the world. 414 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,167 But, it's one most of us have never heard of. 415 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,900 It's called Zoroastrianism. 416 00:26:07,167 --> 00:26:09,232 I've come to Orange County, California, 417 00:26:09,233 --> 00:26:13,966 to meet the president of the temple here - Arman Ariane 418 00:26:13,967 --> 00:26:16,632 Welcome to California Zoroastrian Centre. 419 00:26:16,633 --> 00:26:18,066 Thank you. 420 00:26:18,067 --> 00:26:26,067 Zoroastrianism began 3,500 years ago, in ancient Iran. 421 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,599 The central symbol of the faith is fire. 422 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,632 Today there are just a few small pockets of Zoroastrians 423 00:26:35,633 --> 00:26:40,299 around the world, mostly in India and Iran. 424 00:26:40,300 --> 00:26:43,100 But some are here in California. 425 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,232 This is the fire temple. 426 00:26:47,233 --> 00:26:49,766 This fire is always going? 427 00:26:49,767 --> 00:26:52,532 This is a symbol of Zoroastrianism. 428 00:26:52,533 --> 00:26:55,632 The fire's always going. 429 00:26:55,633 --> 00:27:00,499 It represents enlightenment, and the more you are aware 430 00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:03,832 of this world of ours, the more you know what's ahead; 431 00:27:03,833 --> 00:27:05,732 the better decisions you can make. 432 00:27:05,733 --> 00:27:07,832 It's kind of like you are walking with a flashlight 433 00:27:07,833 --> 00:27:09,133 in your hand. 434 00:27:09,134 --> 00:27:11,299 Yeah. The brighter the light in your life, 435 00:27:11,300 --> 00:27:12,799 That's right. 436 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:18,365 How does that tie in to Zoroastrian belief in 437 00:27:18,366 --> 00:27:20,067 the separation of good and evil? 438 00:27:23,967 --> 00:27:26,299 In Zarathustra's school of thought, 439 00:27:26,300 --> 00:27:29,766 you have two mentalities, which are translated by Westerners 440 00:27:29,767 --> 00:27:31,599 as spirits. 441 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,033 One is good, and one is bad. 442 00:27:34,034 --> 00:27:39,133 They are principles; they are a way of behaving. 443 00:27:39,134 --> 00:27:43,033 So the Zoroastrian motto is Good Thoughts, Good Words, 444 00:27:43,034 --> 00:27:46,265 and Good Deeds. 445 00:27:46,266 --> 00:27:47,666 Zoroastrianism 446 00:27:47,667 --> 00:27:53,166 is a religion focused upon defeating evil. 447 00:27:53,167 --> 00:27:58,332 Zoroastrian priests wear clean, white robes. 448 00:27:58,333 --> 00:28:03,033 Which, like their sacred flame, represent enlightenment 449 00:28:03,034 --> 00:28:05,333 the path away from evil. 450 00:28:10,867 --> 00:28:14,133 Prayers are still said in the ancient Iranian language, 451 00:28:14,134 --> 00:28:19,567 Avestan, which was spoken by its founder, Zoroaster. 452 00:28:23,833 --> 00:28:27,199 Professor of Religion Gregory Riley had been studying 453 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:32,399 how Zoroastrian beliefs shaped Judaism and Christianity 454 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,300 and how they gave birth to the idea of the Devil. 455 00:28:39,300 --> 00:28:43,966 Zoroastrianism predates the Abrahamic religions. 456 00:28:43,967 --> 00:28:45,265 That's right. Yeah. 457 00:28:45,266 --> 00:28:48,732 Zoroaster postulated that to defeat evil in the world, 458 00:28:48,733 --> 00:28:50,733 we were gonna have to have a cataclysmic battle. 459 00:28:53,967 --> 00:28:55,967 And God and the Devil are gonna fight it out, 460 00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,033 That's New Testament; 461 00:28:59,034 --> 00:29:00,532 that's not in Zoroastrian though. 462 00:29:00,533 --> 00:29:02,766 Yes, it is Zoroastrianism. Yeah. 463 00:29:02,767 --> 00:29:06,566 And if you go to the great mass of religions around, 464 00:29:06,567 --> 00:29:07,866 there's no Devil. 465 00:29:07,867 --> 00:29:11,099 The Israelites, they lived without a Devil until 466 00:29:11,100 --> 00:29:13,432 they are in Babylon. 467 00:29:13,433 --> 00:29:20,099 The Jews met Zoroastrianism, and they began to assimilate ideas, 468 00:29:20,100 --> 00:29:23,332 They come back, and the Devil begins to appear 469 00:29:23,333 --> 00:29:24,599 in Jewish literature 470 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,432 these ideas about the Devil having caused that evil. 471 00:29:27,433 --> 00:29:30,699 And so those things start to work on people. 472 00:29:30,700 --> 00:29:33,766 So by the time we get to Jesus' day, 473 00:29:33,767 --> 00:29:37,799 they'd actually created a name for the Devil - Beelzebub, 474 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:39,099 - if you've heard that one. - I have. 475 00:29:39,100 --> 00:29:41,033 - He's got a few of 'em. - Yeah. 476 00:29:41,034 --> 00:29:44,499 So the great competitor of Jesus in our New Testament 477 00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:45,632 and Gospels. 478 00:29:45,633 --> 00:29:47,465 This is now a new take, 479 00:29:47,466 --> 00:29:49,966 That's right. Jews make it their own. 480 00:29:49,967 --> 00:29:52,465 Christians make it their own. 481 00:29:52,466 --> 00:29:53,967 Islam makes it their own. 482 00:29:56,667 --> 00:29:58,432 But just as the idea of the Devil in 483 00:29:58,433 --> 00:30:01,866 Christianity evolved from ancient beliefs, 484 00:30:01,867 --> 00:30:05,766 modern Zoroastrianism has evolved too. 485 00:30:05,767 --> 00:30:08,732 For many Zoroastrians, the Devil is no longer 486 00:30:08,733 --> 00:30:10,899 a real demonic figure. 487 00:30:10,900 --> 00:30:15,332 It's an internal combatant - the struggle between good and evil 488 00:30:15,333 --> 00:30:17,667 is one that takes place in the mind. 489 00:30:23,567 --> 00:30:26,666 So the Zoroastrian motto is Good Thoughts, 490 00:30:26,667 --> 00:30:30,532 Good Words, and Good Deeds, and the order is very important, 491 00:30:30,533 --> 00:30:32,999 because you start with a thought, you, 492 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,832 you talk it with a mentor, before you take any actions. 493 00:30:36,833 --> 00:30:39,866 This way, you don't get yourself in trouble. 494 00:30:39,867 --> 00:30:42,399 And there is no, Satan. 495 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,799 There is no, Devil. 496 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,933 Something outside, influencing us. 497 00:30:46,934 --> 00:30:48,099 Right. 498 00:30:48,100 --> 00:30:51,332 Meaning, therefore, 499 00:30:51,333 --> 00:30:56,799 that God is resident in each of us. 500 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,934 Each of us. 501 00:31:03,100 --> 00:31:05,133 The Zoroastrian school of thought is not something 502 00:31:05,134 --> 00:31:09,199 in the past or future, but what we can do at this very time. 503 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:14,465 All our problems in the world are man-made. 504 00:31:14,466 --> 00:31:16,699 Therefore, they should be solved by man. 505 00:31:16,700 --> 00:31:17,899 Can be. Must be. 506 00:31:17,900 --> 00:31:23,399 To blame it on a supernatural force is not 507 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,265 a Zoroastrian notion. 508 00:31:25,266 --> 00:31:25,800 Right. 509 00:31:28,533 --> 00:31:34,399 Zoroastrians believe that good and evil exists within us all, 510 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,800 and we must make the choice for good. 511 00:31:40,500 --> 00:31:48,399 Each one of us has to purge evil from within us every day, 512 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,034 by doing good. 513 00:31:53,034 --> 00:31:55,933 Doing the right thing. 514 00:31:55,934 --> 00:32:02,732 Purging the world of evil is not the work of messiahs, kings, 515 00:32:02,733 --> 00:32:05,199 prophets. 516 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,400 It's the work of each one of us. 517 00:32:09,900 --> 00:32:17,900 Be we tailor, butcher, salesman, actor, whoever we are. 518 00:32:22,333 --> 00:32:23,700 I like that. 519 00:32:24,833 --> 00:32:26,465 But is it really possible 520 00:32:26,466 --> 00:32:30,499 to conquer evil without the threat of a real devil? 521 00:32:30,500 --> 00:32:33,299 Without the threat of eternal punishment? 522 00:32:43,266 --> 00:32:47,199 In New Zealand, psychologist Jesse Bering believes 523 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:51,233 we need supernatural beings to keep us on the right track. 524 00:32:55,100 --> 00:32:56,332 Are you guys ready to play a game? 525 00:32:56,333 --> 00:32:58,566 Yeah! 526 00:32:58,567 --> 00:33:02,100 Jesse devised an experiment to test this theory. 527 00:33:04,567 --> 00:33:07,332 Alright. Why don't you guys make a circle, 528 00:33:07,333 --> 00:33:10,666 and sit in front of me here, and I'll go over the rules for you. 529 00:33:10,667 --> 00:33:12,666 See, see this piece of tape? 530 00:33:12,667 --> 00:33:17,099 The first rule is that you can't step over the line. 531 00:33:17,100 --> 00:33:22,666 The second rule is that you've gotta throw with your back 532 00:33:22,667 --> 00:33:25,299 to the dartboard. 533 00:33:25,300 --> 00:33:27,660 So you can kinda go like this, and do the best that you can. 534 00:33:29,567 --> 00:33:30,465 See? 535 00:33:35,300 --> 00:33:36,800 Not that easy, is it? 536 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,599 You're gonna be playing this game one at a time, 537 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:45,999 and the person that gets the most points on the dartboard 538 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,633 gets a very special prize at the end of the day. 539 00:33:51,533 --> 00:33:53,253 Alright, we'll see you guys in a little bit. 540 00:33:55,633 --> 00:33:57,866 Jesse watches through hidden cameras to see 541 00:33:57,867 --> 00:34:00,766 if the children cheat. 542 00:34:00,767 --> 00:34:02,033 So here we've got a little boy, 543 00:34:02,034 --> 00:34:06,033 and you can almost see the machinations in his mind. 544 00:34:06,034 --> 00:34:08,933 Let's see if he does it. 545 00:34:08,934 --> 00:34:11,866 You can't really blame a six-year-old for doing that; 546 00:34:11,867 --> 00:34:15,432 he really wants the prize, and thinks he can get away with. 547 00:34:15,433 --> 00:34:19,299 And it's the normal child response. 548 00:34:21,934 --> 00:34:26,799 This little girl, Look at her, she's going right over the line. 549 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,832 And she's putting several balls on, on the board itself, 550 00:34:29,833 --> 00:34:33,632 and she's checking now to see if anybody's actually watching her, 551 00:34:33,633 --> 00:34:34,934 or can see what she's just done. 552 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,566 They think they're alone in the room, 553 00:34:39,567 --> 00:34:41,566 and why not cheat if you can get away with it 554 00:34:41,567 --> 00:34:42,700 and nobody's watching? 555 00:34:46,733 --> 00:34:50,732 But what if someone was watching? 556 00:34:50,733 --> 00:34:53,966 Jesse runs the exact same experiment on a new group 557 00:34:53,967 --> 00:35:00,199 of children, and an invisible supernatural being. 558 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,099 Now before we begin, I wanted to introduce you guys 559 00:35:02,100 --> 00:35:04,299 to somebody really special, 560 00:35:04,300 --> 00:35:06,133 who's in the room with us right now. 561 00:35:06,134 --> 00:35:09,766 Now her name is Princess Alice. 562 00:35:09,767 --> 00:35:11,432 Have any of you ever heard of Princess Alice before? 563 00:35:11,433 --> 00:35:12,666 No. 564 00:35:12,667 --> 00:35:13,832 She's a very friendly magical princess, 565 00:35:13,833 --> 00:35:15,999 and she's got a very special ability 566 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,300 she can make herself invisible. 567 00:35:20,733 --> 00:35:24,033 Princess Alice is sitting in that chair, right now. 568 00:35:24,034 --> 00:35:26,899 So you guys go upstairs for now, and then we're gonna bring you 569 00:35:26,900 --> 00:35:28,934 each down individually to play the game. 570 00:35:33,767 --> 00:35:35,232 With the kids believing they are under 571 00:35:35,233 --> 00:35:38,133 the gaze of an invisible princess, 572 00:35:38,134 --> 00:35:42,632 Jesse sees something remarkable. 573 00:35:42,633 --> 00:35:45,866 Now this little girl, She's been pretty good so far. 574 00:35:45,867 --> 00:35:48,034 Clearly not interested in breaking the rules. 575 00:35:50,266 --> 00:35:51,465 So here we've got a little girl 576 00:35:51,466 --> 00:35:53,033 who's actually touching the chair 577 00:35:53,034 --> 00:35:56,099 to see if maybe she can feel Princess Alice sitting there. 578 00:35:56,100 --> 00:35:57,133 Princess Alice? 579 00:35:57,134 --> 00:35:58,732 She's saying Princess Alice, 580 00:35:58,733 --> 00:36:01,866 so she's clearly not cheating here. 581 00:36:01,867 --> 00:36:03,299 That's the power of belief, you know? 582 00:36:03,300 --> 00:36:05,933 That these kids have never heard of her before, but 583 00:36:05,934 --> 00:36:09,432 all of a sudden she becomes real in their minds. 584 00:36:09,433 --> 00:36:12,799 Jesse's results are always the same. 585 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,666 So what we've seen after testing hundreds of kids 586 00:36:14,667 --> 00:36:17,133 with this study is that kids that are told 587 00:36:17,134 --> 00:36:18,966 that Princess Alice is in the room with them 588 00:36:18,967 --> 00:36:21,866 when they are left alone are significantly less likely 589 00:36:21,867 --> 00:36:22,900 to cheat. 590 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,432 She's doing the same thing that any supernatural agent or god 591 00:36:32,433 --> 00:36:35,465 would do in a given society she is watching them; 592 00:36:35,466 --> 00:36:38,566 she cares about their social behavior, and ultimately, 593 00:36:38,567 --> 00:36:41,033 at least, the implicit assumption is that somehow 594 00:36:41,034 --> 00:36:43,900 she will act if they violate one of the rules. 595 00:36:48,034 --> 00:36:50,699 Jesse's research suggests that we need to believe 596 00:36:50,700 --> 00:36:54,299 we're being watched to eliminate selfish behavior 597 00:36:54,300 --> 00:36:57,499 to keep evil in check. 598 00:36:57,500 --> 00:36:59,199 So the proverbial question is, 599 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,033 would you rob a bank if you thought that nobody 600 00:37:02,034 --> 00:37:04,999 could possibly know that you've done that? 601 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,365 And I think if we're honest with ourselves, 602 00:37:07,366 --> 00:37:09,799 many of us would walk in there, and actually take 603 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,432 all that currency. 604 00:37:12,433 --> 00:37:13,766 An all-seeing, all-knowing, 605 00:37:13,767 --> 00:37:17,332 all-powerful interventionist, moralistic deity 606 00:37:17,333 --> 00:37:23,732 that helps steer people in the direction of good behavior. 607 00:37:23,733 --> 00:37:25,766 The reward of heaven, 608 00:37:25,767 --> 00:37:29,566 and the threat of eternal punishment in hell 609 00:37:29,567 --> 00:37:31,167 keep us on the right track. 610 00:37:32,433 --> 00:37:35,700 But what about those who have succumbed to evil? 611 00:37:36,934 --> 00:37:39,034 Can faith lead us to redemption? 612 00:37:39,900 --> 00:37:42,333 Or does evil mark us for life? 613 00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:49,600 I'm travelling the world 614 00:37:49,601 --> 00:37:53,499 to discover why people believe evil exists. 615 00:37:53,500 --> 00:37:56,167 Christians, Jews and Muslims believe it's part 616 00:37:56,168 --> 00:38:00,234 of the human condition to be tempted to do wrong. 617 00:38:01,968 --> 00:38:05,499 Many faiths urge us to fight temptation. 618 00:38:05,500 --> 00:38:09,033 To put the greater good ahead of our self-interest. 619 00:38:09,034 --> 00:38:12,300 But can we actually rid ourselves of evil? 620 00:38:14,267 --> 00:38:17,700 In Sarnath, India, 621 00:38:17,701 --> 00:38:20,633 I witness how Tibetan Buddhists purged themselves 622 00:38:20,634 --> 00:38:21,800 of evil thoughts. 623 00:38:27,434 --> 00:38:31,200 The monks here at the Vajra Vidya monastery perform 624 00:38:31,201 --> 00:38:33,233 daily chanting rituals. 625 00:38:36,300 --> 00:38:39,266 The music puts them in a meditative state of mind. 626 00:38:45,234 --> 00:38:49,566 Buddhists believe the urge to do evil stems from our ignorance 627 00:38:49,567 --> 00:38:51,334 of how our minds work. 628 00:38:53,267 --> 00:38:56,033 The ritual helps these young monks locate the source 629 00:38:56,034 --> 00:39:01,233 of those bad thoughts, 630 00:39:01,234 --> 00:39:05,068 so that they can understand their cause, and overcome them. 631 00:39:08,934 --> 00:39:12,400 But not everyone wants to fight their inner demons. 632 00:39:14,134 --> 00:39:17,700 There are plenty of people who seem to be hell-bent on doing 633 00:39:17,701 --> 00:39:19,168 bad things. 634 00:39:21,434 --> 00:39:23,134 Is there any way to change them? 635 00:39:26,001 --> 00:39:28,967 I've asked Kent Kiehl, the neuroscientist who studies 636 00:39:28,968 --> 00:39:31,734 psychopaths to meet me again. 637 00:39:32,867 --> 00:39:37,667 I wanna know if his brain scans give us a way to combat evil. 638 00:39:39,068 --> 00:39:42,933 I mean, we always accept evil as how it is. 639 00:39:42,934 --> 00:39:45,499 It just is; there's nothing we can do about it. 640 00:39:45,500 --> 00:39:49,600 But could these brain scans be used maybe to intercept 641 00:39:49,601 --> 00:39:52,366 some young people before they get going on this? 642 00:39:52,367 --> 00:39:53,866 I think they can. 643 00:39:53,867 --> 00:39:56,800 When we understand the systems of the brain that are different 644 00:39:56,801 --> 00:39:59,033 in people who commit these bad crimes, 645 00:39:59,034 --> 00:40:01,299 it gives us an opportunity to try and develop 646 00:40:01,300 --> 00:40:02,666 a treatment for that. 647 00:40:02,667 --> 00:40:04,833 It's like, if you, you know, if I injure my arm and my, 648 00:40:04,834 --> 00:40:07,133 this muscle gets atrophied, just like these certain areas of 649 00:40:07,134 --> 00:40:10,033 the brain are atrophied, I might be able to develop a treatment 650 00:40:10,034 --> 00:40:13,967 program that remediates that atrophy, and fix it. 651 00:40:13,968 --> 00:40:18,000 At about what age range would you think, 652 00:40:18,001 --> 00:40:21,600 as an expert, you would have to start looking? 653 00:40:21,601 --> 00:40:24,233 Following Sandy Hook elementary school shooting 654 00:40:24,234 --> 00:40:27,499 in the United States, we were asked by the parents 655 00:40:27,500 --> 00:40:30,033 who lost their children there to, to do that study 656 00:40:30,034 --> 00:40:32,533 to analyze the brains of kids 657 00:40:32,534 --> 00:40:35,433 that we've studied who killed other people versus 658 00:40:35,434 --> 00:40:38,866 kids in prison who have not, and when we did that analysis, 659 00:40:38,867 --> 00:40:41,866 I wasn't sure that we would find anything that different, 660 00:40:41,867 --> 00:40:43,600 but we really did. 661 00:40:43,601 --> 00:40:45,266 Certain areas of the temporal lobes, 662 00:40:45,267 --> 00:40:49,600 of the emotional areas of the brain were underdeveloped, 663 00:40:49,601 --> 00:40:51,399 where they hadn't achieved a normal development. 664 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:52,700 So when you say kids, 665 00:40:52,701 --> 00:40:53,900 what are you talking about? Are you talking about. 666 00:40:53,901 --> 00:40:55,499 Fourteen, fifteen, sixteen. Yeah. 667 00:40:55,500 --> 00:40:57,167 So that, that's the kids we were working with. 668 00:40:57,168 --> 00:41:00,633 Unfortunately, those, those kids had killed about sixteen people. 669 00:41:00,634 --> 00:41:04,200 The neuroscience today is about ten, eleven, twelve, we think, 670 00:41:04,201 --> 00:41:07,900 that we could help identify and separate kids that have problems 671 00:41:07,901 --> 00:41:09,499 versus kids that are just disruptive 672 00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:10,933 and are gonna grow out of it. 673 00:41:10,934 --> 00:41:13,033 If you were a judge and you wanted to know, 674 00:41:13,034 --> 00:41:15,167 is this a high-risk kid or a low-risk kid, we can say, 675 00:41:15,168 --> 00:41:17,566 this is a, this is a high-risk kid. 676 00:41:17,567 --> 00:41:20,133 We now have a tool that can help us understand, 677 00:41:20,134 --> 00:41:23,566 or can help predict the worst type of things that we all wanna 678 00:41:23,567 --> 00:41:26,766 prevent - a homicide; a death. 679 00:41:26,767 --> 00:41:28,900 What we really wanna be able to do is get better and better 680 00:41:28,901 --> 00:41:32,167 at predicting, and then that'll help us be better and better 681 00:41:32,168 --> 00:41:33,233 at preventing. 682 00:41:35,834 --> 00:41:38,167 Science may help identify those who are most 683 00:41:38,168 --> 00:41:39,700 prone to evil. 684 00:41:42,001 --> 00:41:45,134 But how do you turn your back on a life of evil? 685 00:41:51,500 --> 00:41:55,566 I've come to Los Angeles to meet a man who wiped all trace 686 00:41:55,567 --> 00:41:57,700 of evil from his life. 687 00:41:57,701 --> 00:41:59,967 Alright, buddy, you are all done. 688 00:42:03,500 --> 00:42:06,034 I'm looking for Brian - Brian Widner 689 00:42:11,434 --> 00:42:12,600 Morgan Freeman. 690 00:42:12,601 --> 00:42:13,800 Brian Widner. How are you? 691 00:42:13,801 --> 00:42:15,633 I'm very well indeed. Very well. 692 00:42:15,634 --> 00:42:16,433 How are you? 693 00:42:16,434 --> 00:42:17,666 I am doing well, sir. 694 00:42:17,667 --> 00:42:18,700 Tell me something about yourself. 695 00:42:18,701 --> 00:42:19,801 I hear terrible things. 696 00:42:22,434 --> 00:42:26,299 Well, for sixteen years I was a Neo-Nazi skinhead. 697 00:42:26,300 --> 00:42:28,366 A Neo-Nazi skinhead. 698 00:42:28,367 --> 00:42:31,433 Yes sir. I was in multiple skinhead gangs. 699 00:42:31,434 --> 00:42:34,433 I was an enforcer in one; did some incredibly terrible things 700 00:42:34,434 --> 00:42:37,800 to a lot of undeserving people. 701 00:42:37,801 --> 00:42:39,566 I was an evil person. 702 00:42:39,567 --> 00:42:42,133 I wanted to hurt the world. 703 00:42:42,134 --> 00:42:43,600 That's all I wanted to do. 704 00:42:43,601 --> 00:42:47,533 I was, I, I had a sense of just utter destruction for everybody. 705 00:42:47,534 --> 00:42:51,233 That was, that was my driving goal. 706 00:42:51,234 --> 00:42:53,700 Let me ask you, how did you get to the street, 707 00:42:53,701 --> 00:42:55,133 and why were you on the street? 708 00:42:55,134 --> 00:42:57,133 I fell in with a gang, basically, is what happened. 709 00:42:57,134 --> 00:42:58,500 I fell in with the wrong people. 710 00:43:01,300 --> 00:43:04,666 I was 14 years old, and I was running the streets, 711 00:43:04,667 --> 00:43:07,399 these guys gave me a place to stay, they bought me beer, 712 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,933 made me feel accepted and wanted. 713 00:43:09,934 --> 00:43:11,833 And after about my tenth year I kinda realized 714 00:43:11,834 --> 00:43:15,299 this is a subculture of, of degenerates, 715 00:43:15,300 --> 00:43:18,299 I realized that I'm not superior to anybody. 716 00:43:18,300 --> 00:43:21,633 I, In fact, I was pretty well a lower form of humanity, 717 00:43:21,634 --> 00:43:22,866 you know? 718 00:43:22,867 --> 00:43:24,233 Okay. Now, 719 00:43:24,234 --> 00:43:26,366 we're up to ten years after you've been running around 720 00:43:26,367 --> 00:43:32,233 with these, people, and you've had a, an epiphany. 721 00:43:32,234 --> 00:43:33,833 Tell me a little bit about that. 722 00:43:33,834 --> 00:43:37,133 Some really just magical things just kinda happened 723 00:43:37,134 --> 00:43:38,233 out of nowhere. 724 00:43:38,234 --> 00:43:39,466 Like? 725 00:43:39,467 --> 00:43:42,866 Well I went to a skinhead concert in 2005, 726 00:43:42,867 --> 00:43:44,700 and I met a woman there. 727 00:43:44,701 --> 00:43:48,666 And by the January 2006, we got married. 728 00:43:48,667 --> 00:43:50,499 By February she was pregnant. 729 00:43:50,500 --> 00:43:53,033 It was, I had to start taking a hard look at 730 00:43:53,034 --> 00:43:54,633 what I was doing myself. 731 00:43:54,634 --> 00:43:57,100 I'm bringing this child into a world, 732 00:43:57,101 --> 00:43:59,866 and I told 'em I can't do this anymore; I'm done. 733 00:43:59,867 --> 00:44:03,100 I got, I gotta take care of my son. 734 00:44:03,101 --> 00:44:07,233 So during that time I made the change on the inside, 735 00:44:07,234 --> 00:44:10,033 I actually had to make a physical change on the outside. 736 00:44:10,034 --> 00:44:10,766 How was that? 737 00:44:10,767 --> 00:44:12,400 Let me show you. 738 00:44:17,267 --> 00:44:19,233 That is what I used to look like. 739 00:44:19,234 --> 00:44:21,067 I mean, my neck was completely sleeved-out, 740 00:44:21,068 --> 00:44:22,466 my face was sleeved-out. 741 00:44:22,467 --> 00:44:25,399 I looked the part; I couldn't escape the way I looked on 742 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:30,167 the outside, even though I had already changed on the inside. 743 00:44:30,168 --> 00:44:33,766 I got in contact with a southern poverty law center. 744 00:44:33,767 --> 00:44:36,633 They actually set it up to where 745 00:44:36,634 --> 00:44:41,900 I was able to get the tattoos taken off my face. 746 00:44:41,901 --> 00:44:45,766 Well now, I mean, I can see little 747 00:44:45,767 --> 00:44:47,666 indications of scars, that, 748 00:44:47,667 --> 00:44:50,600 more like you were maybe in a fight at some point, 749 00:44:50,601 --> 00:44:51,833 and it healed up. 750 00:44:51,834 --> 00:44:53,499 It looked like you had all this stuff removed. 751 00:44:53,500 --> 00:44:55,766 How long a process was that? 752 00:44:55,767 --> 00:44:57,566 It took about two-and-a-half years. 753 00:44:57,567 --> 00:45:00,833 There was 25, 26 treatments, something like that. 754 00:45:00,834 --> 00:45:04,366 Every two weeks I was getting, getting laser-zapped. 755 00:45:04,367 --> 00:45:06,733 It was ungodly, excruciating. 756 00:45:06,734 --> 00:45:08,666 My face was constantly swollen I looked like the Elephant Man. 757 00:45:08,667 --> 00:45:10,399 It was, it was a bad time. 758 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,560 And here's actually a picture of me during the process. 759 00:45:15,601 --> 00:45:17,233 That looked like you got punched in the eye. 760 00:45:17,234 --> 00:45:19,366 Yes. It looks like I was a bad boxer, yeah. 761 00:45:19,367 --> 00:45:21,733 Yeah.. 762 00:45:21,734 --> 00:45:25,299 Sorta like, Paying dues. 763 00:45:25,300 --> 00:45:27,866 I very much looked at it as a penance, actually, yes. 764 00:45:27,867 --> 00:45:30,900 I took the pain to, as a reminder that, 765 00:45:30,901 --> 00:45:35,033 I've caused enough, so I might as well have some. 766 00:45:35,034 --> 00:45:39,900 Can you describe to me your sense of yourself 767 00:45:39,901 --> 00:45:43,866 in those times, in terms of evil? 768 00:45:43,867 --> 00:45:46,766 Looking back, I had absolutely no remorse; 769 00:45:46,767 --> 00:45:48,333 I was borderline sociopathic. 770 00:45:48,334 --> 00:45:49,967 I had no feelings. 771 00:45:49,968 --> 00:45:53,466 I wanted to hurt the world. 772 00:45:53,467 --> 00:45:57,933 When I was going through the tattoo removal, I, I found God. 773 00:45:57,934 --> 00:46:02,299 I, Before that, I was a pagan, and, My life was always dark; 774 00:46:02,300 --> 00:46:04,466 I always had a hole, hole in my soul, I guess, 775 00:46:04,467 --> 00:46:05,766 would be the best way to put that. 776 00:46:05,767 --> 00:46:07,499 I don't, I don't know exactly what his name is, 777 00:46:07,500 --> 00:46:09,333 or if it's even Judeo-Christian. 778 00:46:09,334 --> 00:46:11,399 There is a godly presence in the universe, 779 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:12,601 and it made itself known. 780 00:46:14,300 --> 00:46:17,133 It, it helped me realize that there is good and evil 781 00:46:17,134 --> 00:46:22,833 in all of us, and, My goal now is basically when I just leave 782 00:46:22,834 --> 00:46:25,766 this world a better place than when I got into it, you know? 783 00:46:25,767 --> 00:46:27,233 Just try to be a good person. 784 00:46:27,234 --> 00:46:30,866 That's all I can do, and, and hope f, that's good enough. 785 00:46:30,867 --> 00:46:36,533 We have, Sometimes, 786 00:46:36,534 --> 00:46:42,366 thoughts that evil is, just exists, and there's no hope. 787 00:46:42,367 --> 00:46:47,033 But you represent the hope of the world. 788 00:46:47,034 --> 00:46:51,766 That transformation - that complete transformation 789 00:46:51,767 --> 00:46:54,399 that you, yourself, made. 790 00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,067 Absolutely. 791 00:46:56,068 --> 00:47:00,266 And for you, to be able to just completely turn 792 00:47:00,267 --> 00:47:05,833 yourself around like that, it was very, very encouraging. 793 00:47:05,834 --> 00:47:09,067 And I'm honored to talk to you. 794 00:47:09,068 --> 00:47:09,700 Thank you. 795 00:47:13,434 --> 00:47:14,866 Well, I've gotta tell you something I, 796 00:47:14,867 --> 00:47:17,433 I've been noticing. 797 00:47:17,434 --> 00:47:18,900 You're a good-looking man. 798 00:47:18,901 --> 00:47:21,034 Well, thank you! And so are you, by the way! 799 00:47:28,534 --> 00:47:30,700 The awkward stains of Brian's past 800 00:47:30,701 --> 00:47:33,466 have been wiped away. 801 00:47:33,467 --> 00:47:35,633 But I'm struck by the astonishing difference 802 00:47:35,634 --> 00:47:38,434 in his two lives, on the inside. 803 00:47:40,968 --> 00:47:43,933 That was evil in his heart. 804 00:47:43,934 --> 00:47:45,700 His admission. 805 00:47:45,701 --> 00:47:48,167 Deep, and remorseless. 806 00:47:48,168 --> 00:47:52,366 But, he says, the birth of his son, 807 00:47:52,367 --> 00:47:58,700 and a dawning belief in God is what purged him of evil. 808 00:47:58,701 --> 00:48:06,067 If Brian can do that, it gives us hope that people can change. 809 00:48:06,068 --> 00:48:08,433 Evil can be contained. 810 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:16,566 This hope is at the core of the Christian faith. 811 00:48:16,567 --> 00:48:19,933 We have gathered today, on this riverbank, 812 00:48:19,934 --> 00:48:23,299 to perform one of the oldest traditions in our faith 813 00:48:23,300 --> 00:48:25,533 that of baptism. 814 00:48:25,534 --> 00:48:31,333 People sin, but those sins can be washed away. 815 00:48:31,334 --> 00:48:34,000 We follow Jesus' example today, 816 00:48:34,001 --> 00:48:40,967 as we baptize Austin, Katie, Abby, Norman and Chris. 817 00:48:40,968 --> 00:48:46,167 These five do this as a sign of repentance and forgiveness 818 00:48:46,168 --> 00:48:49,033 of sin. 819 00:48:49,034 --> 00:48:53,399 A baptism points the direction to where we are headed, 820 00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,134 and it's a new start on life. 821 00:49:00,567 --> 00:49:04,733 The Bible tells us Adam and Eve knew no evil 822 00:49:04,734 --> 00:49:08,299 until they ate the forbidden fruit. 823 00:49:08,300 --> 00:49:11,701 Almost every faith tells the story of how evil begins. 824 00:49:14,267 --> 00:49:18,566 Whether we believe it comes from unhappy souls, 825 00:49:18,567 --> 00:49:21,466 the Devil himself, 826 00:49:21,467 --> 00:49:22,867 or the Devil within, 827 00:49:24,701 --> 00:49:29,134 We all eventually come face-to-face with evil. 828 00:49:30,467 --> 00:49:31,933 But I think we need to know evil, 829 00:49:31,934 --> 00:49:35,533 because in spite of all the suffering it causes, 830 00:49:35,534 --> 00:49:39,533 it drives us to do good. 831 00:49:39,534 --> 00:49:44,200 Without evil, how would we have ever developed 832 00:49:44,201 --> 00:49:48,067 our unique human characteristics 833 00:49:48,068 --> 00:49:51,233 the ability to express kindness, 834 00:49:51,234 --> 00:49:53,233 mercy, 835 00:49:53,234 --> 00:49:54,733 forgiveness?