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MORGAN FREEMAN: I grew
up in Mississippi.

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In my neighborhood,
everyone was black.

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Day-to-day, I didn't see
overt signs of segregation,

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00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:18,133
but when I went up-town,
it was a different story.

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There's no bus
service here no more.

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But when I was a boy, I was only
allowed into one of these doors.

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One said White;
one said Colored.

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As a kid, when you're confronted
with an evil like racism,

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your first reaction
is confusion.

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Why does this exist?

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Where does it come from?

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♪ [MUSIC] ♪

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For all of our
capacity to do good,

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the urge to do evil has
plagued human history.

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[CHANTING]

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♪ [EXPLOSION SOUND] ♪

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If you believe we live in a
world under divine control,

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why should evil exist at all?

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♪ [MUSIC] ♪

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So I'm going on a journey,

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to try to understand
why evil exists.

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I know what you did.

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My question is, can
you tell me why?

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♪ [MUSIC] ♪

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To discover how it
invades our lives.

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V.A. VIDYA: People who believe
that they are possessed

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by an evil spirit can come here.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: How evil
first stole our hearts.

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SALIMA IKRAM: If you're lying,
or doing anything evil,

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MORGAN FREEMAN: Your heart get
heavy, and with a heavy heart,

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you're not gonna go to heaven.

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And I'll see how some religions
train us to fight the Devil.

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ARMAN ARIANE: You
have two mentalities.

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One is good, and one is bad.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: To
turn the darkness,

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BRIAN WIDNER: I did some
incredibly terrible things.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: Into light.

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You represent the
hope of the world.

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♪ [MUSIC] ♪

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To understand why evil exists,

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we have to know
where it comes from.

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Some faiths see it as an
unseen force that pervades

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the entire world.

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Demons that lurk
in the darkness.

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For Christianity, it could
be the Devil himself.

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Or, is evil something
that comes from inside us?

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♪ [MUSIC] ♪

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So, I'm travelling to a
maximum security prison,

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to meet a man you could
call evil incarnate.

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So Kent, have you ever come
face-to-face with evil?

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DR. KIEHL: I've met some people
who've done some very bad things

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MORGAN FREEMAN: Neuroscientist
Dr. Kent Kiehl is trying

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to pinpoint the source of
evil, inside the brains

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of psychopathic killers.

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DR. KIEHL: I wanted to try
to understand why people do

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really bad things.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Uh-huh.

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DR. KIEHL: And how to, how
to help prevent it someday.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: Thank you.

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I'm about to meet one of
Dr. Kiehl's most notorious

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subjects.

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He's serving a
life sentence here.

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His attorney tells me this man
raped more than two dozen women,

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And murdered three.

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-= www.OpenSubtitles.org =-

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ATTORNEY: He's been in jail
almost since he was a teenager,

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except for very
short spurts

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where, when he would
get out of jail,

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he would go back to the
same behavior of raping,

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and eventually it
evolved into murder.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: Did
he confess to these?

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ATTORNEY: He confessed
to all of 'em.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: I'm not
going to show you his face,

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because I don't want to give
any more notoriety to the man

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who committed these atrocities.

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But I want to know what can
make someone do what he did?

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Do you know who I am?

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PRISONER: Yes.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: I
know what you did.

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My question is, can
you tell me why?

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PRISONER: It was a
spur-of-the-moment thing.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: Each time?

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PRISONER: I didn't have any plan
to go out and snatch anybody.

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Commit any sexual
violence against anybody.

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I had a desire, an impulse, and
I wasn't able to stop myself

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from acting on that impulse.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: Let me ask you,
about what age did you start?

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PRISONER: Back when
I was 21 or 22.

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I was out looking for
something to steal,

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and I just spotted a teacher,
who had stayed late,

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so I decided to rob her,
kidnap her, and rape her.

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I just pulled over on a access
road, and she fought back,

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slipped through the door,
and I just turned around and,

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took off.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: When
did you first kill?

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PRISONER: Going on 27.

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I was going out to
commit a burglary, and,

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the crime happened.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: Kidnaped,
raped, and murdered?

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PRISONER: Yeah.

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00:06:01,234 --> 00:06:03,367
MORGAN FREEMAN: I, I'm
looking for the correct term.

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It, it, it isn't guilt,
it's remorse. Remorse.

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Did you ever experience
that that you know of?

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PRISONER: I don't see
emotions like everybody else.

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I don't feel.

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There was no, remorse.

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I think that I'm not wired
the same as everybody else.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: So, Kent.
DR. KIEHL: Yeah.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: Is
this psychopathic?

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DR. KIEHL: In psychiatry we have
a way of assessing what we call

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psychopathy or psychopathic
personality disorder,

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and the lack of empathy,
the impulse control,

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the poor planning, His scores
are in the 99th percentile.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: What
makes a person evil?

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Kent has scanned the brains of
800 psychopathic criminals.

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This prisoner is the most
extreme case he's ever seen.

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DR. KIEHL: So this is
a standard MRI scan.

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It looks pretty normal when
you run through the MRI scan.

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But what we did is quantify
all the different areas

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of his brain, and to try to
understand how dense are they?

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How strong are they, basically?

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This area of the
orbital frontal cortex,

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it's very important for the
formation of personality,

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for the control of impulses,
for regulating behavior.

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These three bars that I show
here this is the average inmate,

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this is other
individuals that we call

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psychopaths in the red bar,
and you can see that he is,

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he's really reduced.

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He really does have
a different brain.

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And so he, he really does
fit that 99th percentile.

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He's, you know,
one-in-a-million, actually.

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MORGAN FREEMAN:
One-in-a-million?

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DR. KIEHL: He's very rare.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: You've been in
prison now for, what, 30 years?

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PRISONER: Yep.
[Coughs] Long time.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: What if I said
I have a way to get you out?

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Would you wanna go?

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PRISONER: I'd wanna go, but
since I did commit those crimes,

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I still have that,

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MORGAN FREEMAN: Impulse...
PRISONER: Capacity.

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Society wouldn't be safe.

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I don't have the same
controls as you do,

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or somebody else does.

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MORGAN FREEMAN:
This is an evil man.

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Evil personified.

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Neuroscientists say that
his behavior is a result of

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bad neural wiring.

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But the question is, even so,
does he not still have a choice?

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Can he choose not to
commit a heinous crime?

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Psychopaths are at the
extreme of human behavior.

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But we all face the choice
to do good or do evil.

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And for thousands of years,
we've battled those urges.

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♪ [MUSIC] ♪

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I've come to Luxor,
capital of ancient Egypt.

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Egyptologist Salima Ikram is
going to show me one of

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the oldest depictions of
our struggle to choose

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between good and evil.

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So, right over there?

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SALIMA: Mm-hmm. Yes.

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All the east, and to the part
on the other side of the Nile,

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east of the Nile, was always
the land of the living.

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And then over here, you have the
land of the dead, on the west.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: Literally.
All those are tombs.

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SALIMA: Yep. All
of those are tombs,

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and I want to show you
one in particular.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: These are
the tombs of the nobles,

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just around the corner from
the Valley of the Kings,

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where Tutankhamun was buried
more than 3 millennia ago.

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SALIMA: So here's
the tomb of Menna.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: Menna.
SALIMA: Mm-hmm.

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Here we go.

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♪ [MUSIC] ♪

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MORGAN FREEMAN: Oh, Oh!

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Look at that!

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SALIMA: There we are.

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That's Menna, over there, and he
was a scribe for the god Amun,

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and he oversaw the lands of the
god Amun, and also over here,

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you can see this big harvest
that he's checking out.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: It's great.

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They're harvesting their, wheat.

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00:11:01,867 --> 00:11:07,367
This artwork is 3,500 years old?

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SALIMA: Yep. 1370 B.C. And it
hasn't been touched-up.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: Those
are his scribes.

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SALIMA: Those are his,

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MORGAN FREEMAN: He's
overseeing the scribes.

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SALIMA: Precisely.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: A-ha, ha, ha.
SALIMA: And,

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MORGAN FREEMAN: When
I get back to the States,

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00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:25,500
I'm gonna be a
hieroglyphic expert.

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SALIMA: You are, indeed.

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Now, let me show you
a little something,

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00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:37,566
about how Menna gets
to go to the afterlife.

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MORGAN FREEMAN: Menna's tomb
includes a remarkable feature

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00:11:40,300 --> 00:11:43,334
that Salima tells
me I have to see.

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♪ [MUSIC] ♪

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A scene where Menna would
be judged on the balance

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00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,867
of good and evil he had done.

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SALIMA: This all
funerary procession,

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00:11:55,367 --> 00:11:57,533
MORGAN FREEMAN: Okay.

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00:11:57,533 --> 00:12:00,733
SALIMA: You can see his
coffin being brought here.

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00:12:00,733 --> 00:12:01,800
MORGAN FREEMAN: That's
his coffin, there?

201
00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,000
SALIMA: Uh-huh.
That's his coffin.

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00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,800
And then he's brought
here, finally,

203
00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,867
in front of the god Osiris.

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00:12:10,867 --> 00:12:15,100
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

205
00:12:15,100 --> 00:12:17,234
This is Menna.

206
00:12:17,234 --> 00:12:20,700
And then here, you have
a complete innovation.

207
00:12:20,700 --> 00:12:22,833
It's the first time you'll
ever see this, really,

208
00:12:22,833 --> 00:12:27,967
in a private tomb, and that is
the weighing of the heart scene.

209
00:12:27,967 --> 00:12:30,900
And here he is being judged,

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00:12:30,900 --> 00:12:34,033
to see if he was good
or if he was evil.

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00:12:34,033 --> 00:12:37,100
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

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00:12:37,100 --> 00:12:38,500
MORGAN FREEMAN: In
front of Osiris,

213
00:12:38,500 --> 00:12:41,833
the god of the Underworld,
Menna's heart is weighed against

214
00:12:41,833 --> 00:12:44,334
the goddess of truth, Ma'at.

215
00:12:46,700 --> 00:12:51,566
While Thoth, her husband,
writes down the judgement.

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00:12:51,566 --> 00:12:54,300
SALIMA: So it's almost as if,
it's a Cliff Note for him.

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00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:56,733
MORGAN FREEMAN:
[LAUGHTER] Gotcha.

218
00:12:56,733 --> 00:12:58,967
Cliff Notes!

219
00:12:58,967 --> 00:13:01,234
SALIMA: So, if you're lying,
or stealing, or cheating,

220
00:13:01,234 --> 00:13:04,633
or doing anything evil, the
whole thing is the fact that

221
00:13:04,633 --> 00:13:05,900
it reflects on your heart.

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00:13:05,900 --> 00:13:06,967
MORGAN FREEMAN: All of
that weighs on your heart,

223
00:13:06,967 --> 00:13:08,300
your heart gets heavy...
SALIMA: Mm-hmm.

224
00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:09,666
MORGAN FREEMAN: I
have a heavy heart.

225
00:13:09,666 --> 00:13:10,800
SALIMA: Yes.

226
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,133
MORGAN FREEMAN: And
with a heavy heart,

227
00:13:12,133 --> 00:13:13,467
you're not gonna go to heaven.
SALIMA: That's right.

228
00:13:13,467 --> 00:13:15,967
He won't be able to have
lift-off, basically.

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00:13:15,967 --> 00:13:19,400
MORGAN FREEMAN: Ah.
Just, Good, Well-put!

230
00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:24,467
So in this depiction, his
heart is indeed in balance,

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00:13:24,467 --> 00:13:25,566
SALIMA: Mm-hmm.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Right?

232
00:13:25,566 --> 00:13:26,400
SALIMA: Right.

233
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:27,833
MORGAN FREEMAN: So he's cool.

234
00:13:27,833 --> 00:13:29,833
SALIMA: Totally cool.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Alright.

235
00:13:29,833 --> 00:13:32,000
SALIMA: Good to go
into the afterlife.

236
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,300
MORGAN FREEMAN: You would
think that that would be

237
00:13:34,300 --> 00:13:36,500
the beginning, at
least, somehow,

238
00:13:36,500 --> 00:13:40,533
of the Judeo-Christian
ethic, as it were,

239
00:13:40,533 --> 00:13:43,167
in terms of good and evil.

240
00:13:43,167 --> 00:13:45,766
SALIMA: Basically, I think that
modern religion has its roots

241
00:13:45,766 --> 00:13:47,700
in this idea of morality,

242
00:13:47,700 --> 00:13:50,933
and that anything bad
you do is reflected

243
00:13:50,933 --> 00:13:52,700
and can be judged in some way.

244
00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:54,566
The Egyptians were very literal.

245
00:13:54,566 --> 00:13:56,700
They said you can
judge it by your heart.

246
00:13:56,700 --> 00:13:58,766
But even now, when,
you know, you can say,

247
00:13:58,766 --> 00:14:01,400
He is pure of heart, it
means he's a good person.

248
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,100
MORGAN FREEMAN: Right. Right.

249
00:14:03,100 --> 00:14:05,267
In the centuries after Menna,

250
00:14:05,267 --> 00:14:09,100
the idea of eternal reward for
turning one's back on evil

251
00:14:09,100 --> 00:14:12,533
spread throughout
Egyptian society.

252
00:14:12,533 --> 00:14:17,367
And from there, it may have fed
into Judaism, Christianity,

253
00:14:17,367 --> 00:14:18,566
and Islam.

254
00:14:18,566 --> 00:14:32,000
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

255
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,133
The weighing of the
heart assumes that fear

256
00:14:34,133 --> 00:14:36,566
of consequences is the
only thing that keeps us

257
00:14:36,566 --> 00:14:38,833
on a righteous path.

258
00:14:38,833 --> 00:14:44,700
Which makes me wonder,
Are we inherently good.

259
00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:46,434
Or inherently evil?

260
00:14:46,434 --> 00:14:50,133
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

261
00:14:50,133 --> 00:14:52,733
In fact, that question
is at the very root

262
00:14:52,733 --> 00:14:54,334
of the Christian faith.

263
00:14:54,334 --> 00:14:56,900
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

264
00:14:56,900 --> 00:15:01,200
The early leaders of the church
trace our tendency to sin

265
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:05,334
back to Adam and Eve,
who ate the forbidden fruit

266
00:15:05,334 --> 00:15:06,700
original sin.

267
00:15:10,500 --> 00:15:20,067
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

268
00:15:20,067 --> 00:15:23,133
I've come to meet Baptist
Reverend and theologian

269
00:15:23,133 --> 00:15:27,200
Kutter Callaway, to find out
whether original sin means

270
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,267
we are all evil at heart.

271
00:15:30,267 --> 00:15:31,434
REV. CALLAWAY: Hi.
Pleasure to meet you.

272
00:15:31,434 --> 00:15:32,633
MORGAN FREEMAN: Thank you.

273
00:15:32,633 --> 00:15:33,400
REV. CALLAWAY: Have a seat.

274
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:34,800
MORGAN FREEMAN: Thank you.

275
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,633
Which book were you reading?

276
00:15:38,633 --> 00:15:40,267
The first few
chapters of Genesis.

277
00:15:40,267 --> 00:15:42,033
That is exactly what
I'm gonna talk about,

278
00:15:42,033 --> 00:15:47,566
and what I'm wanna
talk about is, sin.

279
00:15:47,566 --> 00:15:52,967
What is original sin?

280
00:15:52,967 --> 00:15:54,800
REV. CALLAWAY: Well,
it's a good question.

281
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,133
The Christian tradition, it
kinda coined original sin.

282
00:15:58,133 --> 00:16:01,133
Some primal desire
that we all have,

283
00:16:01,133 --> 00:16:04,334
that's a very basic
human urge or impulse.

284
00:16:04,334 --> 00:16:08,867
Because Adam sinned, that
original sin was passed on

285
00:16:08,867 --> 00:16:11,800
from one generation to
the next - perpetuated,

286
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:16,267
generation after generation
after generation.

287
00:16:16,267 --> 00:16:21,167
MORGAN FREEMAN: I have recently
spent some time with a person

288
00:16:21,167 --> 00:16:26,434
who we could say personifies,
REV. CALLAWAY: Mm. Mm-hmm.

289
00:16:26,434 --> 00:16:28,000
MORGAN FREEMAN: Evil.
I needed to say

290
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,300
why did you do these things?

291
00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:32,933
And he would say, I
just felt like it.

292
00:16:32,933 --> 00:16:36,100
And beyond that, I don't know.

293
00:16:36,100 --> 00:16:39,367
Now that's inherent, evil.
Well, isn't it?

294
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:42,766
REV. CALLAWAY: What you saw,

295
00:16:42,766 --> 00:16:46,467
you could name that as a
sort of demonic thing.

296
00:16:46,467 --> 00:16:48,833
MORGAN FREEMAN: This is demonic.

297
00:16:48,833 --> 00:16:50,234
REV. CALLAWAY: It's demonic.

298
00:16:50,234 --> 00:16:54,400
But, I think it's important
for us to acknowledge that,

299
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,267
that there is a little
bit of him in all of us.

300
00:16:57,267 --> 00:17:02,833
There's something inherent in
us that seems to bend itself

301
00:17:02,833 --> 00:17:06,434
towards death and violence.

302
00:17:06,434 --> 00:17:07,334
MORGAN FREEMAN:
Is there a Devil?

303
00:17:07,334 --> 00:17:09,867
Or is that just a metaphor?

304
00:17:09,867 --> 00:17:16,600
REV. CALLAWAY: It is a metaphor,
and also, the Devil is real.

305
00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,833
There's a lot of different
forms - you know,

306
00:17:19,833 --> 00:17:25,000
Devils with pitchforks
to goblins and ghouls, etc.

307
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,200
In the New Testament, you
even get Jesus interacting with

308
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:29,900
Satan, and yet at the same time,

309
00:17:29,900 --> 00:17:33,666
you have Jesus talking
to one of his disciples,

310
00:17:33,666 --> 00:17:37,666
and saying at one point,
Get behind me, Satan.

311
00:17:37,666 --> 00:17:43,067
So it seems even Jesus is
dealing with both a, a,

312
00:17:43,067 --> 00:17:47,067
an actual presence - what, what
we might say is a personified

313
00:17:47,067 --> 00:17:52,766
evil, or, And at the same time,
that we can be satanic, demonic,

314
00:17:52,766 --> 00:17:57,833
in, in our own desire to steer
away from what God wants.

315
00:18:00,867 --> 00:18:05,600
MORGAN FREEMAN: We are born with
the capacity for evil inside us.

316
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,400
Most of us struggle our whole
lives to resist the temptation

317
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,800
to do wrong.

318
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,700
But that could be another
source of evil in our lives,

319
00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:17,500
the people who brought
us into this world.

320
00:18:17,500 --> 00:18:20,267
PRISONER: My dad
was an alcoholic.

321
00:18:20,267 --> 00:18:22,700
MORGAN FREEMAN: Whether
they are living, or dead.

322
00:18:25,867 --> 00:18:28,633
MORGAN FREEMAN: Why does
evil exist in the world?

323
00:18:28,633 --> 00:18:31,900
Is it because we all
have evil inside us,

324
00:18:31,900 --> 00:18:33,900
or does it come
from somewhere else?

325
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,300
I've travelled to India to
understand what Hindus believe

326
00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:51,566
is a source of evil
the unhappy souls

327
00:18:51,566 --> 00:18:53,100
of their ancestors.

328
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:59,100
I'm in the city of Varanasi to
visit the temple Pishach Mochan,

329
00:18:59,100 --> 00:19:02,867
where exorcisms go
on all day long.

330
00:19:02,867 --> 00:19:07,733
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

331
00:19:07,733 --> 00:19:11,267
My guide, Varanasi
resident and educator,

332
00:19:11,267 --> 00:19:17,033
V.A. Vidya, introduces
me to the head priest,

333
00:19:17,033 --> 00:19:20,200
and to see the
goblin, or Pischach,

334
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,100
who is said to live here.

335
00:19:23,033 --> 00:19:25,733
V.A. VIDYA: So there is the
goblin, For 15 years,

336
00:19:25,733 --> 00:19:30,300
just wandering around in pain,
so he finally prayed to Shiva.

337
00:19:38,367 --> 00:19:40,533
MORGAN FREEMAN: The
great Hindu god, Shiva,

338
00:19:40,533 --> 00:19:43,300
puts the goblin through a
purifying ritual which ends

339
00:19:43,300 --> 00:19:46,200
with a dip in the nearby pond.

340
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:50,200
That instantly cures
him of his disease.

341
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,100
In return, Shiva orders the
goblin to protect people

342
00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:56,633
near the pond from any
other evil spirits.

343
00:20:01,467 --> 00:20:05,100
V.A. VIDYA: Now Shiva asks,
Okay, you are cured,

344
00:20:05,100 --> 00:20:08,267
so you are going to help
all the people who suffer

345
00:20:08,267 --> 00:20:10,733
being possessed by evil.

346
00:20:10,733 --> 00:20:12,200
MORGAN FREEMAN: So this
is a benign goblin.

347
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:13,867
V.A. VIDYA: Yes.
He's a benign goblin.

348
00:20:16,533 --> 00:20:20,067
MORGAN FREEMAN: Now this pond
has become a place of healing.

349
00:20:20,067 --> 00:20:23,566
A haven for people who feel
their lives are haunted

350
00:20:23,566 --> 00:20:25,900
by an evil presence.

351
00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:27,267
V.A. VIDYA: So here,
you, Look at the water.

352
00:20:27,267 --> 00:20:29,234
It's brackish, but people
believe that something is going

353
00:20:29,234 --> 00:20:32,700
MORGAN FREEMAN: Brackish?
Is that a term for it?

354
00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:34,167
V.A. VIDYA: Yeah.

355
00:20:34,167 --> 00:20:38,733
So you know the typical theme
is water cleanses everything.

356
00:20:38,733 --> 00:20:39,566
MORGAN FREEMAN: Okay.

357
00:20:39,566 --> 00:20:41,367
I'm gonna, I'm gonna buy that!

358
00:20:41,367 --> 00:20:42,467
[LAUGHS]

359
00:20:42,467 --> 00:20:47,933
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

360
00:20:47,933 --> 00:20:51,100
Hindus believe that when
someone's death is traumatic

361
00:20:51,100 --> 00:20:54,533
or unhappy, their soul
can become angry,

362
00:20:54,533 --> 00:20:58,533
and haunt the lives of their
children or other relatives.

363
00:20:58,533 --> 00:21:01,267
This can cause mental
or physical illness

364
00:21:01,267 --> 00:21:03,434
even financial troubles.

365
00:21:07,633 --> 00:21:10,234
The correct rituals, however,

366
00:21:10,234 --> 00:21:14,400
can liberate the unhappy
soul and free the living.

367
00:21:20,033 --> 00:21:21,700
What's going on over there?

368
00:21:21,700 --> 00:21:23,334
V.A. VIDYA: That's the Shaman.
He is preparing,

369
00:21:23,334 --> 00:21:24,933
MORGAN FREEMAN: He's exorcising?
V.A. VIDYA: Yes.

370
00:21:24,933 --> 00:21:28,067
♪ [CHANTING] ♪

371
00:21:28,067 --> 00:21:31,300
Their conversation, no-one can
understand. It's done in a,

372
00:21:31,300 --> 00:21:32,434
MORGAN FREEMAN: What, they're
speaking in tongues?

373
00:21:32,434 --> 00:21:34,533
V.A. VIDYA: He's speaking
in tongues, yes.

374
00:21:38,967 --> 00:21:41,133
And then the patient
responds - either screams,

375
00:21:41,133 --> 00:21:43,000
or responds in tongues.

376
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,434
Or they have spasms.

377
00:21:45,434 --> 00:21:48,300
And then finally they
believe that it's released.

378
00:21:48,300 --> 00:21:52,334
[SCREAMS]

379
00:21:58,300 --> 00:22:00,434
MORGAN FREEMAN: Most of the
people who come here don't need

380
00:22:00,434 --> 00:22:04,000
a full-on exorcism
like this man.

381
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:09,500
[PRAYING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

382
00:22:09,500 --> 00:22:11,967
The Shukla family
are typical clients.

383
00:22:11,967 --> 00:22:14,900
They are having money troubles,
and they worry that the spirits

384
00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:17,400
of their ancestors
may be the cause.

385
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,967
[PRAYING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

386
00:22:20,967 --> 00:22:23,334
V.A. VIDYA: This is
a departure ritual,

387
00:22:23,334 --> 00:22:25,566
for the spirit that
is wandering around.

388
00:22:25,566 --> 00:22:28,067
♪ [CHANTING] ♪

389
00:22:28,067 --> 00:22:29,666
MORGAN FREEMAN: What
gives you the impression,

390
00:22:29,666 --> 00:22:31,900
what makes one think Oh,

391
00:22:31,900 --> 00:22:34,700
my parents' spirits
are not settled?

392
00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:37,100
V.A. VIDYA: I think
personal troubles.

393
00:22:37,100 --> 00:22:38,967
If them, something is
causing them trouble,

394
00:22:38,967 --> 00:22:41,200
whenever there's a financial
loss in the family,

395
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,467
and frequent sicknesses,
bad dreams, and,

396
00:22:44,467 --> 00:22:47,500
so everything is associated
with this procession home.

397
00:22:47,500 --> 00:22:51,766
[PRAYING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

398
00:22:51,766 --> 00:22:54,633
MORGAN FREEMAN: To make their
ancestors' spirits happy,

399
00:22:54,633 --> 00:22:58,133
the Shuklas must prepare
them a good meal,

400
00:22:58,133 --> 00:23:00,600
one that is blessed
by the priest.

401
00:23:02,133 --> 00:23:06,666
V.A. VIDYA: They offer honey,
clarified butter, banana,

402
00:23:06,666 --> 00:23:08,933
fruits, and everything.

403
00:23:08,933 --> 00:23:11,800
And this would be
offered to dead soul,

404
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,666
which is gonna eat the food, so
this will be a special meal.

405
00:23:18,766 --> 00:23:21,234
After receiving all the
food, they offer a lamp,

406
00:23:21,234 --> 00:23:23,766
and an umbrella,
and a pair of shoes.

407
00:23:23,766 --> 00:23:28,400
So here, every departed soul is
fitted like a real human being.

408
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:29,867
Is spoken...
MORGAN FREEMAN: The spirit?

409
00:23:29,867 --> 00:23:32,700
V.A. VIDYA: Yes. The spirit is
treated like a real human being.

410
00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:36,967
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

411
00:23:36,967 --> 00:23:38,700
MORGAN FREEMAN: The ancestors
receive what they need

412
00:23:38,700 --> 00:23:42,400
for their journey
in the afterlife.

413
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,800
After the Shuklas offer the
food to the sacred pond,

414
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,067
and nail a coin
to this holy tree,

415
00:23:50,067 --> 00:23:54,133
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

416
00:23:54,133 --> 00:23:58,334
The unhappy souls of their
ancestors are set free,

417
00:23:58,334 --> 00:24:01,334
and the shadow of evil lifts.

418
00:24:01,334 --> 00:24:20,200
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

419
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:24,133
In Christianity, You've got
the Devil, and you've got God;

420
00:24:24,133 --> 00:24:27,067
you've got good,
you've got evil.

421
00:24:27,067 --> 00:24:32,434
Don't seem to have that
going on in Hinduism.

422
00:24:32,434 --> 00:24:35,766
V.A. VIDYA: In Hinduism,
there's no dichotomy between

423
00:24:35,766 --> 00:24:40,467
good and evil - the same
person can become good an evil.

424
00:24:40,467 --> 00:24:44,367
In a temple like this,
even the evil is treated

425
00:24:44,367 --> 00:24:48,400
very respectfully, and
is treated caringly.

426
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,100
MORGAN FREEMAN: That's
very interesting.

427
00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:51,566
Very interesting concept.

428
00:24:51,566 --> 00:24:54,800
Because I think it sort of
frees us up to be better.

429
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,833
V.A. VIDYA: Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah.

430
00:24:56,833 --> 00:25:00,200
It, There's always,
at the end, the hope.

431
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,900
The hope that even the
evil can be liberated.

432
00:25:03,900 --> 00:25:07,234
And evil can be purified, like
taking a dip into the pond.

433
00:25:07,234 --> 00:25:12,334
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

434
00:25:12,334 --> 00:25:15,267
MORGAN FREEMAN: So I've
been watching people at,

435
00:25:15,267 --> 00:25:18,800
in these temples - I mean,
crowds of people - doing ritual

436
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,533
after ritual, trying to stay
in the good graces of their

437
00:25:21,533 --> 00:25:23,167
ancestors.

438
00:25:23,167 --> 00:25:28,033
But the thing about it
is, evil is not spurned.

439
00:25:28,033 --> 00:25:32,566
Evil is thought of as a
spirit that needs help.

440
00:25:32,566 --> 00:25:36,666
Just, needs to find peace.

441
00:25:38,500 --> 00:25:40,067
Cool!

442
00:25:40,067 --> 00:25:44,033
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

443
00:25:44,033 --> 00:25:48,533
Hindus want to guide people
into the common good.

444
00:25:48,533 --> 00:25:53,933
That idea is also the
basis of another faith.

445
00:25:53,933 --> 00:25:56,867
One of the oldest and most
influential religions

446
00:25:56,867 --> 00:25:58,100
in the world.

447
00:25:58,100 --> 00:26:01,467
But, it's one most of
us have never heard of.

448
00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:05,200
It's called Zoroastrianism.

449
00:26:07,467 --> 00:26:09,533
I've come to Orange
County, California,

450
00:26:09,533 --> 00:26:14,267
to meet the president of the
temple here - Arman Ariane

451
00:26:14,267 --> 00:26:16,933
ARMAN: Welcome to California
Zoroastrian Centre.

452
00:26:16,933 --> 00:26:18,367
MORGAN FREEMAN: Thank you.

453
00:26:18,367 --> 00:26:28,700
Zoroastrianism began 3,500
years ago, in ancient Iran.

454
00:26:28,700 --> 00:26:32,900
The central symbol
of the faith is fire.

455
00:26:32,900 --> 00:26:35,933
Today there are just a few
small pockets of Zoroastrians

456
00:26:35,933 --> 00:26:40,600
around the world, mostly
in India and Iran.

457
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,400
But some are here in California.

458
00:26:44,900 --> 00:26:47,533
ARMAN: This is the fire temple.

459
00:26:47,533 --> 00:26:50,067
MORGAN FREEMAN: This
fire is always going?

460
00:26:50,067 --> 00:26:52,833
ARMAN: This is a symbol
of Zoroastrianism.

461
00:26:52,833 --> 00:26:55,933
The fire's always going.

462
00:26:55,933 --> 00:27:00,800
It represents enlightenment,
and the more you are aware

463
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,133
of this world of ours, the more
you know what's ahead;

464
00:27:04,133 --> 00:27:06,033
the better decisions
you can make.

465
00:27:06,033 --> 00:27:08,133
It's kind of like you are
walking with a flashlight

466
00:27:08,133 --> 00:27:09,434
in your hand.

467
00:27:09,434 --> 00:27:11,600
MORGAN FREEMAN: Yeah. The
brighter the light in your life,

468
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,100
ARMAN: That's right.

469
00:27:13,100 --> 00:27:18,666
MORGAN FREEMAN: How does that
tie in to Zoroastrian belief in

470
00:27:18,666 --> 00:27:20,367
the separation of good and evil?

471
00:27:24,267 --> 00:27:26,600
ARMAN: In Zarathustra's
school of thought,

472
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,067
you have two mentalities, which
are translated by Westerners

473
00:27:30,067 --> 00:27:31,900
as spirits.

474
00:27:31,900 --> 00:27:34,334
One is good, and one is bad.

475
00:27:34,334 --> 00:27:39,434
They are principles; they
are a way of behaving.

476
00:27:39,434 --> 00:27:43,334
So the Zoroastrian motto is
Good Thoughts, Good Words,

477
00:27:43,334 --> 00:27:46,566
and Good Deeds.

478
00:27:46,566 --> 00:27:47,967
MORGAN FREEMAN: Zoroastrianism

479
00:27:47,967 --> 00:27:53,467
is a religion focused
upon defeating evil.

480
00:27:53,467 --> 00:27:58,633
Zoroastrian priests
wear clean, white robes.

481
00:27:58,633 --> 00:28:03,334
Which, like their sacred flame,
represent enlightenment

482
00:28:03,334 --> 00:28:05,633
the path away from evil.

483
00:28:05,633 --> 00:28:11,167
[PRAYING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

484
00:28:11,167 --> 00:28:14,434
Prayers are still said in the
ancient Iranian language,

485
00:28:14,434 --> 00:28:19,867
Avestan, which was spoken
by its founder, Zoroaster.

486
00:28:19,867 --> 00:28:24,133
[PRAYING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

487
00:28:24,133 --> 00:28:27,500
Professor of Religion Gregory
Riley had been studying

488
00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:32,700
how Zoroastrian beliefs shaped
Judaism and Christianity

489
00:28:32,700 --> 00:28:36,600
and how they gave birth to
the idea of the Devil.

490
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:44,267
Zoroastrianism predates
the Abrahamic religions.

491
00:28:44,267 --> 00:28:45,566
GREGORY RILEY:
That's right. Yeah.

492
00:28:45,566 --> 00:28:49,033
Zoroaster postulated that
to defeat evil in the world,

493
00:28:49,033 --> 00:28:51,033
we were gonna have to
have a cataclysmic battle.

494
00:28:54,267 --> 00:28:56,267
And God and the Devil
are gonna fight it out,

495
00:28:58,300 --> 00:28:59,334
MORGAN FREEMAN:
That's New Testament;

496
00:28:59,334 --> 00:29:00,833
that's not in
Zoroastrian though.

497
00:29:00,833 --> 00:29:03,067
GREGORY: Yes, it is
Zoroastrianism. Yeah.

498
00:29:03,067 --> 00:29:06,867
And if you go to the great mass
of religions around,

499
00:29:06,867 --> 00:29:08,167
there's no Devil.

500
00:29:08,167 --> 00:29:11,400
The Israelites, they lived
without a Devil until

501
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,733
they are in Babylon.

502
00:29:13,733 --> 00:29:20,400
The Jews met Zoroastrianism, and
they began to assimilate ideas,

503
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,633
They come back, and the
Devil begins to appear

504
00:29:23,633 --> 00:29:24,900
in Jewish literature

505
00:29:24,900 --> 00:29:27,733
these ideas about the Devil
having caused that evil.

506
00:29:27,733 --> 00:29:31,000
And so those things
start to work on people.

507
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,067
So by the time we
get to Jesus' day,

508
00:29:34,067 --> 00:29:38,100
they'd actually created a name
for the Devil - Beelzebub,

509
00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:39,400
if you've heard that one.
MORGAN FREEMAN: I have.

510
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,334
He's got a few of 'em.
GREGORY: Yeah.

511
00:29:41,334 --> 00:29:44,800
So the great competitor of
Jesus in our New Testament

512
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:45,933
and Gospels.

513
00:29:45,933 --> 00:29:47,766
MORGAN FREEMAN:
This is now a new take,

514
00:29:47,766 --> 00:29:50,267
GREGORY: That's right.
Jews make it their own.

515
00:29:50,267 --> 00:29:52,766
Christians make it their own.

516
00:29:52,766 --> 00:29:54,267
Islam makes it their own.

517
00:29:56,967 --> 00:29:58,733
MORGAN FREEMAN: But just
as the idea of the Devil in

518
00:29:58,733 --> 00:30:02,167
Christianity evolved
from ancient beliefs,

519
00:30:02,167 --> 00:30:06,067
modern Zoroastrianism
has evolved too.

520
00:30:06,067 --> 00:30:09,033
For many Zoroastrians,
the Devil is no longer

521
00:30:09,033 --> 00:30:11,200
a real demonic figure.

522
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,633
It's an internal combatant - the
struggle between good and evil

523
00:30:15,633 --> 00:30:17,967
is one that takes
place in the mind.

524
00:30:23,867 --> 00:30:26,967
GREGORY: So the Zoroastrian
motto is Good Thoughts,

525
00:30:26,967 --> 00:30:30,833
Good Words, and Good Deeds, and
the order is very important,

526
00:30:30,833 --> 00:30:33,300
because you start
with a thought, you,

527
00:30:33,300 --> 00:30:37,133
you talk it with a mentor,
before you take any actions.

528
00:30:37,133 --> 00:30:40,167
This way, you don't get
yourself in trouble.

529
00:30:40,167 --> 00:30:42,700
MORGAN FREEMAN: And
there is no, Satan.

530
00:30:42,700 --> 00:30:45,100
There is no, Devil.

531
00:30:45,100 --> 00:30:47,234
Something outside,
influencing us.

532
00:30:47,234 --> 00:30:48,400
GREGORY: Right.

533
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,633
MORGAN FREEMAN:
Meaning, therefore,

534
00:30:51,633 --> 00:30:57,100
that God is resident
in each of us.

535
00:30:57,100 --> 00:30:59,234
GREGORY: Each of us.

536
00:30:59,234 --> 00:31:03,400
[PRAYING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

537
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,434
The Zoroastrian school of
thought is not something

538
00:31:05,434 --> 00:31:09,500
in the past or future, but what
we can do at this very time.

539
00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:14,766
All our problems in
the world are man-made.

540
00:31:14,766 --> 00:31:17,000
Therefore, they should
be solved by man.

541
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,200
MORGAN FREEMAN: Can be. Must be.

542
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:23,700
GREGORY: To blame it on a
supernatural force is not

543
00:31:23,700 --> 00:31:25,566
a Zoroastrian notion.

544
00:31:25,566 --> 00:31:26,100
MORGAN FREEMAN: Right.

545
00:31:28,833 --> 00:31:34,700
Zoroastrians believe that good
and evil exists within us all,

546
00:31:34,700 --> 00:31:39,100
and we must make
the choice for good.

547
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:48,700
Each one of us has to purge
evil from within us every day,

548
00:31:48,700 --> 00:31:52,334
by doing good.

549
00:31:53,334 --> 00:31:56,234
Doing the right thing.

550
00:31:56,234 --> 00:32:03,033
Purging the world of evil is not
the work of messiahs, kings,

551
00:32:03,033 --> 00:32:05,500
prophets.

552
00:32:05,500 --> 00:32:07,700
It's the work of each one of us.

553
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:20,700
Be we tailor, butcher, salesman,
actor, whoever we are.

554
00:32:22,633 --> 00:32:24,000
I like that.

555
00:32:25,133 --> 00:32:26,766
But is it really possible

556
00:32:26,766 --> 00:32:30,800
to conquer evil without
the threat of a real devil?

557
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,600
Without the threat of
eternal punishment?

558
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:43,566
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

559
00:32:43,566 --> 00:32:47,500
In New Zealand, psychologist
Jesse Bering believes

560
00:32:47,500 --> 00:32:51,533
we need supernatural beings
to keep us on the right track.

561
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:56,633
JESSE BERING: Are you
guys ready to play a game?

562
00:32:56,633 --> 00:32:58,867
CHILDREN: Yeah!

563
00:32:58,867 --> 00:33:02,400
JESSE: Jesse devised an
experiment to test this theory.

564
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,100
BOY: Oh.

565
00:33:04,867 --> 00:33:07,633
JESSE: Alright. Why don't you
guys make a circle,

566
00:33:07,633 --> 00:33:10,967
and sit in front of me here, and
I'll go over the rules for you.

567
00:33:10,967 --> 00:33:12,967
See, see this piece of tape?

568
00:33:12,967 --> 00:33:17,400
The first rule is that you
can't step over the line.

569
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:22,967
The second rule is that you've
gotta throw with your back

570
00:33:22,967 --> 00:33:25,600
to the dartboard.

571
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,633
So you can kinda go like this,
and do the best that you can.

572
00:33:29,167 --> 00:33:29,867
Oh.

573
00:33:29,867 --> 00:33:30,766
See?

574
00:33:30,766 --> 00:33:34,267
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

575
00:33:34,267 --> 00:33:35,600
Oh!

576
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,100
Not that easy, is it?

577
00:33:38,300 --> 00:33:40,900
You're gonna be playing
this game one at a time,

578
00:33:40,900 --> 00:33:46,300
and the person that gets the
most points on the dartboard

579
00:33:46,300 --> 00:33:50,933
gets a very special prize
at the end of the day.

580
00:33:51,833 --> 00:33:53,334
Alright, we'll see you
guys in a little bit.

581
00:33:55,933 --> 00:33:58,167
MORGAN FREEMAN: Jesse watches
through hidden cameras to see

582
00:33:58,167 --> 00:34:01,067
if the children cheat.

583
00:34:01,067 --> 00:34:02,334
JESSE: So here we've
got a little boy,

584
00:34:02,334 --> 00:34:06,334
and you can almost see the
machinations in his mind.

585
00:34:06,334 --> 00:34:09,234
Let's see if he does it.

586
00:34:09,234 --> 00:34:12,167
You can't really blame a
six-year-old for doing that;

587
00:34:12,167 --> 00:34:15,733
he really wants the prize, and
thinks he can get away with.

588
00:34:15,733 --> 00:34:19,600
And it's the normal
child response.

589
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,234
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

590
00:34:22,234 --> 00:34:27,100
This little girl, Look at her,
she's going right over the line.

591
00:34:27,100 --> 00:34:30,133
And she's putting several
balls on, on the board itself,

592
00:34:30,133 --> 00:34:33,933
and she's checking now to see if
anybody's actually watching her,

593
00:34:33,933 --> 00:34:35,234
or can see what she's just done.

594
00:34:38,300 --> 00:34:39,867
They think they're
alone in the room,

595
00:34:39,867 --> 00:34:41,867
and why not cheat if
you can get away with it

596
00:34:41,867 --> 00:34:43,000
and nobody's watching?

597
00:34:47,033 --> 00:34:51,033
MORGAN FREEMAN: But what
if someone was watching?

598
00:34:51,033 --> 00:34:54,267
Jesse runs the exact same
experiment on a new group

599
00:34:54,267 --> 00:35:00,500
of children, and an invisible
supernatural being.

600
00:35:00,500 --> 00:35:02,400
JESSE: Now before we begin, I
wanted to introduce you guys

601
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,600
to somebody really special,

602
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,434
who's in the room with
us right now.

603
00:35:06,434 --> 00:35:10,067
Now her name is Princess Alice.

604
00:35:10,067 --> 00:35:11,733
Have any of you ever heard
of Princess Alice before?

605
00:35:11,733 --> 00:35:12,967
GIRL: No.

606
00:35:12,967 --> 00:35:14,133
JESSE: She's a very
friendly magical princess,

607
00:35:14,133 --> 00:35:16,300
and she's got a
very special ability

608
00:35:16,300 --> 00:35:18,600
she can make herself invisible.

609
00:35:21,033 --> 00:35:24,334
Princess Alice is sitting
in that chair, right now.

610
00:35:24,334 --> 00:35:27,200
So you guys go upstairs for now,
and then we're gonna bring you

611
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,234
each down individually
to play the game.

612
00:35:34,067 --> 00:35:35,533
MORGAN FREEMAN: With the kids
believing they are under

613
00:35:35,533 --> 00:35:38,434
the gaze of an
invisible princess,

614
00:35:38,434 --> 00:35:42,933
Jesse sees something remarkable.

615
00:35:42,933 --> 00:35:46,167
JESSE: Now this little girl,
She's been pretty good so far.

616
00:35:46,167 --> 00:35:48,334
Clearly not interested
in breaking the rules.

617
00:35:50,566 --> 00:35:51,766
So here we've got a little girl

618
00:35:51,766 --> 00:35:53,334
who's actually
touching the chair

619
00:35:53,334 --> 00:35:56,400
to see if maybe she can feel
Princess Alice sitting there.

620
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:57,434
GIRL: Princess Alice?

621
00:35:57,434 --> 00:35:59,033
JESSE: Oh, she's
saying Princess Alice,

622
00:35:59,033 --> 00:36:02,167
so she's clearly
not cheating here.

623
00:36:02,167 --> 00:36:03,600
JESSE: That's the power
of belief, you know?

624
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,234
That these kids have never
heard of her before, but

625
00:36:06,234 --> 00:36:09,733
all of a sudden she becomes
real in their minds.

626
00:36:09,733 --> 00:36:13,100
MORGAN FREEMAN: Jesse's
results are always the same.

627
00:36:13,100 --> 00:36:14,967
JESSE: So what we've seen
after testing hundreds of kids

628
00:36:14,967 --> 00:36:17,434
with this study is that
kids that are told

629
00:36:17,434 --> 00:36:19,267
that Princess Alice is
in the room with them

630
00:36:19,267 --> 00:36:22,167
when they are left alone are
significantly less likely

631
00:36:22,167 --> 00:36:23,200
to cheat.

632
00:36:29,500 --> 00:36:32,733
She's doing the same thing that
any supernatural agent or god

633
00:36:32,733 --> 00:36:35,766
would do in a given society
she is watching them;

634
00:36:35,766 --> 00:36:38,867
she cares about their social
behavior, and ultimately,

635
00:36:38,867 --> 00:36:41,334
at least, the implicit
assumption is that somehow

636
00:36:41,334 --> 00:36:44,200
she will act if they
violate one of the rules.

637
00:36:48,334 --> 00:36:51,000
MORGAN FREEMAN: Jesse's research
suggests that we need to believe

638
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,600
we're being watched to
eliminate selfish behavior

639
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,800
to keep evil in check.

640
00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:59,500
JESSE: So the
proverbial question is,

641
00:36:59,500 --> 00:37:02,334
would you rob a bank if
you thought that nobody

642
00:37:02,334 --> 00:37:05,300
could possibly know
that you've done that?

643
00:37:05,300 --> 00:37:07,666
And I think if we're
honest with ourselves,

644
00:37:07,666 --> 00:37:10,100
many of us would walk in
there, and actually take

645
00:37:10,100 --> 00:37:12,733
all that currency.

646
00:37:12,733 --> 00:37:14,067
An all-seeing, all-knowing,

647
00:37:14,067 --> 00:37:17,633
all-powerful interventionist,
moralistic deity

648
00:37:17,633 --> 00:37:24,033
that helps steer people in the
direction of good behavior.

649
00:37:24,033 --> 00:37:26,067
MORGAN FREEMAN: The
reward of heaven,

650
00:37:26,067 --> 00:37:29,867
and the threat of eternal
punishment in hell

651
00:37:29,867 --> 00:37:31,467
keep us on the right track.

652
00:37:32,733 --> 00:37:36,000
But what about those who
have succumbed to evil?

653
00:37:37,234 --> 00:37:39,334
Can faith lead us to redemption?

654
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,633
Or does evil mark us for life?

655
00:37:46,966 --> 00:37:49,067
MORGAN FREEMAN: I'm
travelling the world

656
00:37:49,067 --> 00:37:52,966
to discover why people
believe evil exists.

657
00:37:52,966 --> 00:37:55,634
Christians, Jews and
Muslims believe it's part

658
00:37:55,634 --> 00:37:59,700
of the human condition
to be tempted to do wrong.

659
00:38:01,434 --> 00:38:04,966
Many faiths urge us
to fight temptation.

660
00:38:04,966 --> 00:38:08,500
To put the greater good
ahead of our self-interest.

661
00:38:08,500 --> 00:38:11,766
But can we actually
rid ourselves of evil?

662
00:38:13,733 --> 00:38:17,167
In Sarnath, India,

663
00:38:17,167 --> 00:38:20,100
I witness how Tibetan
Buddhists purged themselves

664
00:38:20,100 --> 00:38:21,267
of evil thoughts.

665
00:38:21,267 --> 00:38:26,900
♪ [CHANTING] ♪

666
00:38:26,900 --> 00:38:30,667
The monks here at the Vajra
Vidya monastery perform

667
00:38:30,667 --> 00:38:32,700
daily chanting rituals.

668
00:38:32,700 --> 00:38:35,766
♪ [CHANTING] ♪

669
00:38:35,766 --> 00:38:38,733
The music puts them in a
meditative state of mind.

670
00:38:38,733 --> 00:38:44,700
♪ [CHANTING] ♪

671
00:38:44,700 --> 00:38:49,033
Buddhists believe the urge to do
evil stems from our ignorance

672
00:38:49,033 --> 00:38:50,800
of how our minds work.

673
00:38:52,733 --> 00:38:55,500
The ritual helps these young
monks locate the source

674
00:38:55,500 --> 00:39:00,700
of those bad thoughts,

675
00:39:00,700 --> 00:39:04,534
so that they can understand
their cause, and overcome them.

676
00:39:06,367 --> 00:39:08,400
[SIREN]

677
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,866
But not everyone wants to
fight their inner demons.

678
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:17,167
There are plenty of people who
seem to be hell-bent on doing

679
00:39:17,167 --> 00:39:18,634
bad things.

680
00:39:18,634 --> 00:39:20,900
[MULTIPLY GUN SHOTS]

681
00:39:20,900 --> 00:39:22,600
Is there any way to change them?

682
00:39:25,467 --> 00:39:28,434
I've asked Kent Kiehl, the
neuroscientist who studies

683
00:39:28,434 --> 00:39:31,200
psychopaths to meet me again.

684
00:39:32,333 --> 00:39:37,133
I wanna know if his brain scans
give us a way to combat evil.

685
00:39:38,534 --> 00:39:42,400
I mean, we always accept
evil as how it is.

686
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,966
It just is; there's
nothing we can do about it.

687
00:39:44,966 --> 00:39:49,067
But could these brain scans
be used maybe to intercept

688
00:39:49,067 --> 00:39:51,833
some young people before
they get going on this?

689
00:39:51,833 --> 00:39:53,333
DR. KIEHL: I think they can.

690
00:39:53,333 --> 00:39:56,267
When we understand the systems
of the brain that are different

691
00:39:56,267 --> 00:39:58,500
in people who commit
these bad crimes,

692
00:39:58,500 --> 00:40:00,766
it gives us an opportunity
to try and develop

693
00:40:00,766 --> 00:40:02,133
a treatment for that.

694
00:40:02,133 --> 00:40:04,300
It's like, if you, you know,
if I injure my arm and my,

695
00:40:04,300 --> 00:40:06,600
this muscle gets atrophied, just
like these certain areas of

696
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,500
the brain are atrophied, I might
be able to develop a treatment

697
00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:13,434
program that remediates
that atrophy, and fix it.

698
00:40:13,434 --> 00:40:17,467
MORGAN FREEMAN: At about what
age range would you think,

699
00:40:17,467 --> 00:40:21,067
as an expert, you would
have to start looking?

700
00:40:21,067 --> 00:40:23,700
DR. KIEHL: Following Sandy Hook
elementary school shooting

701
00:40:23,700 --> 00:40:26,966
in the United States, we
were asked by the parents

702
00:40:26,966 --> 00:40:29,500
who lost their children
there to, to do that study

703
00:40:29,500 --> 00:40:32,000
to analyze the brains of kids

704
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,900
that we've studied who
killed other people versus

705
00:40:34,900 --> 00:40:38,333
kids in prison who have not,
and when we did that analysis,

706
00:40:38,333 --> 00:40:41,333
I wasn't sure that we would
find anything that different,

707
00:40:41,333 --> 00:40:43,067
but we really did.

708
00:40:43,067 --> 00:40:44,733
Certain areas of
the temporal lobes,

709
00:40:44,733 --> 00:40:49,067
of the emotional areas of the
brain were underdeveloped,

710
00:40:49,067 --> 00:40:50,866
where they hadn't achieved
a normal development.

711
00:40:50,866 --> 00:40:52,167
MORGAN FREEMAN: So
when you say kids,

712
00:40:52,167 --> 00:40:53,367
what are you talking about?
Are you talking about.

713
00:40:53,367 --> 00:40:54,966
DR. KIEHL: Fourteen,
fifteen, sixteen. Yeah.

714
00:40:54,966 --> 00:40:56,634
So that, that's the kids
we were working with.

715
00:40:56,634 --> 00:41:00,100
Unfortunately, those, those kids
had killed about sixteen people.

716
00:41:00,100 --> 00:41:03,667
The neuroscience today is about
ten, eleven, twelve, we think,

717
00:41:03,667 --> 00:41:07,367
that we could help identify and
separate kids that have problems

718
00:41:07,367 --> 00:41:08,966
versus kids that are
just disruptive

719
00:41:08,966 --> 00:41:10,400
and are gonna grow out of it.

720
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,500
If you were a judge
and you wanted to know,

721
00:41:12,500 --> 00:41:14,634
is this a high-risk kid or
a low-risk kid, we can say,

722
00:41:14,634 --> 00:41:17,033
this is a, this is
a high-risk kid.

723
00:41:17,033 --> 00:41:19,600
We now have a tool that
can help us understand,

724
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,033
or can help predict the worst
type of things that we all wanna

725
00:41:23,033 --> 00:41:26,233
prevent - a homicide; a death.

726
00:41:26,233 --> 00:41:28,367
What we really wanna be able to
do is get better and better

727
00:41:28,367 --> 00:41:31,634
at predicting, and then that'll
help us be better and better

728
00:41:31,634 --> 00:41:32,700
at preventing.

729
00:41:32,700 --> 00:41:35,300
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

730
00:41:35,300 --> 00:41:37,634
MORGAN FREEMAN: Science may help
identify those who are most

731
00:41:37,634 --> 00:41:39,167
prone to evil.

732
00:41:39,167 --> 00:41:41,467
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

733
00:41:41,467 --> 00:41:44,600
But how do you turn your
back on a life of evil?

734
00:41:50,966 --> 00:41:55,033
I've come to Los Angeles to
meet a man who wiped all trace

735
00:41:55,033 --> 00:41:57,167
of evil from his life.

736
00:41:57,167 --> 00:41:59,434
TATTOOIST: Alright,
buddy, you are all done.

737
00:41:59,434 --> 00:42:02,966
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

738
00:42:02,966 --> 00:42:05,500
MORGAN FREEMAN: I'm looking
for Brian - Brian Widner

739
00:42:10,900 --> 00:42:12,067
Morgan Freeman.

740
00:42:12,067 --> 00:42:13,267
BRIAN WIDNER: Brian Widner.
How are you?

741
00:42:13,267 --> 00:42:15,100
MORGAN FREEMAN: I'm very
well indeed. Very well.

742
00:42:15,100 --> 00:42:15,900
How are you?

743
00:42:15,900 --> 00:42:17,133
BRIAN: I am doing well, sir.

744
00:42:17,133 --> 00:42:18,167
MORGAN FREEMAN: Tell me
something about yourself.

745
00:42:18,167 --> 00:42:19,267
I hear terrible things.

746
00:42:21,900 --> 00:42:25,766
BRIAN: Well, for sixteen years
I was a Neo-Nazi skinhead.

747
00:42:25,766 --> 00:42:27,833
MORGAN FREEMAN: A
Neo-Nazi skinhead.

748
00:42:27,833 --> 00:42:30,900
BRIAN: Yes sir. I was in
multiple skinhead gangs.

749
00:42:30,900 --> 00:42:33,900
I was an enforcer in one; did
some incredibly terrible things

750
00:42:33,900 --> 00:42:37,267
to a lot of undeserving people.

751
00:42:37,267 --> 00:42:39,033
I was an evil person.

752
00:42:39,033 --> 00:42:41,600
I wanted to hurt the world.

753
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:43,067
That's all I wanted to do.

754
00:42:43,067 --> 00:42:47,000
I was, I, I had a sense of just
utter destruction for everybody.

755
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,700
That was, that was
my driving goal.

756
00:42:50,700 --> 00:42:53,167
MORGAN FREEMAN: Let me ask you,
how did you get to the street,

757
00:42:53,167 --> 00:42:54,600
and why were you on the street?

758
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,600
BRIAN: I fell in with a gang,
basically, is what happened.

759
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:57,966
I fell in with the wrong people.

760
00:43:00,766 --> 00:43:04,133
I was 14 years old, and I
was running the streets,

761
00:43:04,133 --> 00:43:06,866
these guys gave me a place to
stay, they bought me beer,

762
00:43:06,866 --> 00:43:09,400
made me feel
accepted and wanted.

763
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,300
And after about my tenth
year I kinda realized

764
00:43:11,300 --> 00:43:14,766
this is a subculture
of, of degenerates,

765
00:43:14,766 --> 00:43:17,766
I realized that I'm not
superior to anybody.

766
00:43:17,766 --> 00:43:21,100
I, In fact, I was pretty well
a lower form of humanity,

767
00:43:21,100 --> 00:43:22,333
you know?

768
00:43:22,333 --> 00:43:23,700
MORGAN FREEMAN: Okay. Now,

769
00:43:23,700 --> 00:43:25,833
we're up to ten years after
you've been running around

770
00:43:25,833 --> 00:43:31,700
with these, people, and you've
had a, an epiphany.

771
00:43:31,700 --> 00:43:33,300
Tell me a little bit about that.

772
00:43:33,300 --> 00:43:36,600
BRIAN: Some really just magical
things just kinda happened

773
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:37,700
out of nowhere.

774
00:43:37,700 --> 00:43:38,933
MORGAN FREEMAN: Like?

775
00:43:38,933 --> 00:43:42,333
BRIAN: Well I went to a
skinhead concert in 2005,

776
00:43:42,333 --> 00:43:44,167
and I met a woman there.

777
00:43:44,167 --> 00:43:48,133
And by the January
2006, we got married.

778
00:43:48,133 --> 00:43:49,966
By February she was pregnant.

779
00:43:49,966 --> 00:43:52,500
It was, I had to start
taking a hard look at

780
00:43:52,500 --> 00:43:54,100
what I was doing myself.

781
00:43:54,100 --> 00:43:56,567
I'm bringing this
child into a world,

782
00:43:56,567 --> 00:43:59,333
and I told 'em I can't do
this anymore; I'm done.

783
00:43:59,333 --> 00:44:02,567
I got, I gotta take
care of my son.

784
00:44:02,567 --> 00:44:06,700
So during that time I made
the change on the inside,

785
00:44:06,700 --> 00:44:09,500
I actually had to make a
physical change on the outside.

786
00:44:09,500 --> 00:44:10,233
MORGAN FREEMAN: How was that?

787
00:44:10,233 --> 00:44:11,866
BRIAN: Let me show you.

788
00:44:16,733 --> 00:44:18,700
That is what I
used to look like.

789
00:44:18,700 --> 00:44:20,534
I mean, my neck was
completely sleeved-out,

790
00:44:20,534 --> 00:44:21,933
my face was sleeved-out.

791
00:44:21,933 --> 00:44:24,866
I looked the part; I couldn't
escape the way I looked on

792
00:44:24,866 --> 00:44:29,634
the outside, even though I had
already changed on the inside.

793
00:44:29,634 --> 00:44:33,233
I got in contact with a
southern poverty law center.

794
00:44:33,233 --> 00:44:36,100
They actually set it up to where

795
00:44:36,100 --> 00:44:41,367
I was able to get the
tattoos taken off my face.

796
00:44:41,367 --> 00:44:45,233
MORGAN FREEMAN: Well now, I
mean, I can see little

797
00:44:45,233 --> 00:44:47,133
indications of scars, that,

798
00:44:47,133 --> 00:44:50,067
more like you were maybe
in a fight at some point,

799
00:44:50,067 --> 00:44:51,300
and it healed up.

800
00:44:51,300 --> 00:44:52,966
It looked like you had
all this stuff removed.

801
00:44:52,966 --> 00:44:55,233
How long a process was that?

802
00:44:55,233 --> 00:44:57,033
BRIAN: It took about
two-and-a-half years.

803
00:44:57,033 --> 00:45:00,300
There was 25, 26 treatments,
something like that.

804
00:45:00,300 --> 00:45:03,833
Every two weeks I was getting,
getting laser-zapped.

805
00:45:03,833 --> 00:45:06,200
It was ungodly, excruciating.

806
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,133
My face was constantly swollen
I looked like the Elephant Man.

807
00:45:08,133 --> 00:45:09,866
It was, it was a bad time.

808
00:45:09,866 --> 00:45:11,933
And here's actually a picture
of me during the process.

809
00:45:15,067 --> 00:45:16,700
MORGAN FREEMAN: That looked like
you got punched in the eye.

810
00:45:16,700 --> 00:45:18,833
BRIAN: Yes. It looks like
I was a bad boxer, yeah.

811
00:45:18,833 --> 00:45:21,200
MORGAN FREEMAN: Yeah.
[Laughter].

812
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,766
Sorta like, Paying dues.

813
00:45:24,766 --> 00:45:27,333
BRIAN: I very much looked at it
as a penance, actually, yes.

814
00:45:27,333 --> 00:45:30,367
I took the pain to,
as a reminder that,

815
00:45:30,367 --> 00:45:34,500
I've caused enough, so I
might as well have some.

816
00:45:34,500 --> 00:45:39,367
MORGAN FREEMAN: Can you describe
to me your sense of yourself

817
00:45:39,367 --> 00:45:43,333
in those times, in terms
of evil?

818
00:45:43,333 --> 00:45:46,233
BRIAN: Looking back, I had
absolutely no remorse;

819
00:45:46,233 --> 00:45:47,800
I was borderline sociopathic.

820
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:49,434
I had no feelings.

821
00:45:49,434 --> 00:45:52,933
I wanted to hurt the world.

822
00:45:52,933 --> 00:45:57,400
When I was going through the
tattoo removal, I, I found God.

823
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:01,766
I, Before that, I was a pagan,
and, My life was always dark;

824
00:46:01,766 --> 00:46:03,933
I always had a hole,
hole in my soul, I guess,

825
00:46:03,933 --> 00:46:05,233
would be the best
way to put that.

826
00:46:05,233 --> 00:46:06,966
I don't, I don't know
exactly what his name is,

827
00:46:06,966 --> 00:46:08,800
or if it's even Judeo-Christian.

828
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,866
There is a godly
presence in the universe,

829
00:46:10,866 --> 00:46:12,067
and it made itself known.

830
00:46:13,766 --> 00:46:16,600
It, it helped me realize
that there is good and evil

831
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:22,300
in all of us, and, My goal now
is basically when I just leave

832
00:46:22,300 --> 00:46:25,233
this world a better place than
when I got into it, you know?

833
00:46:25,233 --> 00:46:26,700
Just try to be a good person.

834
00:46:26,700 --> 00:46:30,333
That's all I can do, and, and
hope f, that's good enough.

835
00:46:30,333 --> 00:46:36,000
MORGAN FREEMAN: We
have, Sometimes,

836
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:41,833
thoughts that evil is, just
exists, and there's no hope.

837
00:46:41,833 --> 00:46:46,500
But you represent the
hope of the world.

838
00:46:46,500 --> 00:46:51,233
That transformation - that
complete transformation

839
00:46:51,233 --> 00:46:53,866
that you, yourself, made.

840
00:46:53,866 --> 00:46:55,534
BRIAN: Absolutely.

841
00:46:55,534 --> 00:46:59,733
MORGAN FREEMAN: And for you, to
be able to just completely turn

842
00:46:59,733 --> 00:47:05,300
yourself around like that, it
was very, very encouraging.

843
00:47:05,300 --> 00:47:08,534
And I'm honored to talk to you.

844
00:47:08,534 --> 00:47:09,167
BRIAN: Thank you.

845
00:47:09,167 --> 00:47:12,900
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

846
00:47:12,900 --> 00:47:14,333
MORGAN FREEMAN: Well, I've
gotta tell you something I,

847
00:47:14,333 --> 00:47:16,900
I've been noticing.

848
00:47:16,900 --> 00:47:18,367
You're a good-looking man.

849
00:47:18,367 --> 00:47:20,500
BRIAN: Well, thank you! And
so are you, by the way!

850
00:47:20,500 --> 00:47:21,933
[LAUGHTER]

851
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,167
MORGAN FREEMAN: The awkward
stains of Brian's past

852
00:47:30,167 --> 00:47:32,933
have been wiped away.

853
00:47:32,933 --> 00:47:35,100
But I'm struck by the
astonishing difference

854
00:47:35,100 --> 00:47:37,900
in his two lives, on the inside.

855
00:47:40,434 --> 00:47:43,400
That was evil in his heart.

856
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:45,167
His admission.

857
00:47:45,167 --> 00:47:47,634
Deep, and remorseless.

858
00:47:47,634 --> 00:47:51,833
But, he says, the
birth of his son,

859
00:47:51,833 --> 00:47:58,167
and a dawning belief in God
is what purged him of evil.

860
00:47:58,167 --> 00:48:05,534
If Brian can do that, it gives
us hope that people can change.

861
00:48:05,534 --> 00:48:07,900
Evil can be contained.

862
00:48:07,900 --> 00:48:10,866
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

863
00:48:10,866 --> 00:48:16,033
This hope is at the core
of the Christian faith.

864
00:48:16,033 --> 00:48:19,400
MINISTER: We have gathered
today, on this riverbank,

865
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,766
to perform one of the oldest
traditions in our faith

866
00:48:22,766 --> 00:48:25,000
that of baptism.

867
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:30,800
MORGAN FREEMAN: People sin, but
those sins can be washed away.

868
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,467
MINISTER: We follow
Jesus' example today,

869
00:48:33,467 --> 00:48:40,434
as we baptize Austin, Katie,
Abby, Norman and Chris.

870
00:48:40,434 --> 00:48:45,634
These five do this as a sign
of repentance and forgiveness

871
00:48:45,634 --> 00:48:48,500
of sin.

872
00:48:48,500 --> 00:48:52,866
A baptism points the direction
to where we are headed,

873
00:48:52,866 --> 00:48:55,600
and it's a new start on life.

874
00:49:00,033 --> 00:49:04,200
MORGAN FREEMAN: The Bible tells
us Adam and Eve knew no evil

875
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,766
until they ate the
forbidden fruit.

876
00:49:07,766 --> 00:49:11,167
Almost every faith tells the
story of how evil begins.

877
00:49:13,733 --> 00:49:18,033
Whether we believe it
comes from unhappy souls,

878
00:49:18,033 --> 00:49:20,933
the Devil himself,

879
00:49:20,933 --> 00:49:22,333
or the Devil within,

880
00:49:22,333 --> 00:49:24,167
[LIGHTNING SOUND]

881
00:49:24,167 --> 00:49:28,600
We all eventually come
face-to-face with evil.

882
00:49:29,933 --> 00:49:31,400
But I think we
need to know evil,

883
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:35,000
because in spite of all
the suffering it causes,

884
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:39,000
it drives us to do good.

885
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:43,667
Without evil, how would
we have ever developed

886
00:49:43,667 --> 00:49:47,534
our unique human characteristics

887
00:49:47,534 --> 00:49:50,700
the ability to express
kindness,

888
00:49:50,700 --> 00:49:52,700
mercy,

889
00:49:52,700 --> 00:49:54,200
forgiveness?

890
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:58,667
♪ [MUSIC] ♪

891
00:49:59,305 --> 00:50:05,238
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