[TV static drones]
[bright tone]
Jon Snow still dead.
Sansa Stark still alive.
Melisandre older than she looks.
Remember your skin care.
This is "After the Thrones."
[dramatic music]
♪ ♪
Season six of "Game of Thrones" is here
and so are we.
I am Chris Ryan. I'm Andy Greenwald.
This is "After the Thrones."
Every week, we are gonna be bringing you
analysis, jokes, the whos, the whats,
the whens, the wheres, the WTFs
of this entire "Game of Thrones" season six.
This is the place for hopefully smart conversation,
wild speculation,
I pray some Dornish wine recommendations.
Think of it this way:
if "Game of Thrones" the show is Brienne of Tarth,
we are Podrick.
Yeah, following behind but woefully bad at hunting.
Andy, we're gonna be joined in a little bit
by our friends at Amateur Maesters
Mallory Rubin and Jason Concepcion,
but first, after this episode,
we have to ask the question
the people have been asking all winter.
Yeah.
What's up with Jon Snow?
- Still dead. - Yeah!
I appreciated the fact that we got right into it,
and we absolutely, definitively saw that he was expired.
Yeah, so this season, this episode starts
right where "Mother's Mercy" ended, right?
So Jon Snow is dead.
Yes, but that's not the important question.
To my mind, the important question is,
how and when is he coming back?
Now, call me a member of the Faith Militant if you must,
but I am a Jon Snow truther.
Yeah.
I remain convinced that he will be back
in some shape or form this season.
I should add as a caveat that is my opinion alone,
and like Jon Snow when he was alive,
I know nothing.
Right.
But I have a feeling that he'll be back,
and to me, that's a more interesting story anyway,
the how and the why, not the what.
So why do you feel like that has to happen?
Well, the thing is, about the show, is,
so much has been invested in Jon Snow as a hero.
Right.
And the hero's journey
often has some bumps along the way.
Enormous death by being stabbed in the stomach
by your best friends and brothers,
that's a pretty big bump.
I feel like for him to come back
and reclaim the mantle that he's going to reclaim,
he's gonna be back.
I didn't know I was cohosting with Joseph Campbell.
I think that the thing is, I'm patient, okay?
Jon Snow can just lay down for a while.
Be--it's okay, because what happens--
- Should get lumbar support on the slab,
is what you're saying.
Yeah, it's very--
I wonder what the Sleep Number is on that.
The thing is, is, I want to get to know
a little bit about the world around Jon Snow,
and as we saw in this episode,
that's gonna be a major part of this season,
is people dealing with the aftermath of his death.
And the characters who are gonna sort of step up
to the front of the stage and into the spotlight,
those are some of the most interesting characters we have.
Now, we're gonna touch on a couple of them
in a little bit, but first,
we wanted to just take a look at the chessboard, right?
Yeah.
So we're gonna go to the map,
and we're gonna take a look from just
at the known world here and see where our characters are.
From Shivering Sea to Shivering Sea,
this is where our characters are at the beginning of season six.
Should we start in the east?
Yeah, let's go start in the east with the Dothraki Sea,
the sort of plains and then into the desert.
Daenerys, she traveled a little bit north from Meereen.
I love that I'm going, "It's a cold front
coming in from Meereen."
[laughs] Yeah.
Actually it's a little bit warm
with Drogon blowing down those goats.
Anyway, we got Daenerys, and she has been picked up
by a new khalasar.
Here's the thing: not all Dothraki are the same.
No.
That is a very prejudicial thing to say,
just because they are on horses and love to eat beating hearts.
This is a whole different crew of Dothraki
that she's fallen in with
and clearly ones that are not that fond of her,
but interestingly enough,
they are fond of improvisational comedy.
Yeah, I didn't know that they were making listicles
out there in the khalasar.
Let's take a look at a clip from the Dothraki camp.
[speaking Dothraki]
Monty Python of the plains there.
Yeah, I didn't know they were living
above The Comedy Store.
They were, like, three inches away from making,
like, a Borat "my khaleesi wife" joke.
Here's the thing, though, that's interesting to note here.
Like, if you think about last season,
we talked about Arya Stark,
and remember, in the season finale,
she really murdered a dude and was punished for it...
Yeah.
Because she said, "I am Arya Stark.
I am not no one," when the whole point
of the Faceless Men is to become no one.
It was interesting to note that when Daenerys
dealt with these Dothraki, they were like,
"You can have all of your names and titles.
To us, you are still no one."
Yeah, she just has to go live
in the "Golden Girls" compound with all the other widows.
This is the interesting point, right?
Like, I guess we're gonna see it,
but there is-- just to be clear,
there is a Dothraki retirement home.
I assume it's basically the Boca of Essos.
Yeah.
And it's where all of the widows of the khals
gather to play mahjong until infinity,
so that should be a great fit for her and--
- I think she has some other cards to play, though.
I think that part of the reason why--
and I had sort of thought this before--
where it might seem like happenstance
that Drogon took her where he took her,
'cause they flew out of Meereen
at the end of last season.
Yeah, he reminded me of an Uber driver I had the other day.
But what if Drogon has a plan for Daenerys?
And what if he thinks-- - Oh.
I just--I know that I'm imbuing a lot of personality
in this winged beast, but what if he knows
that to get where she needs to go,
which theoretically is west,
she needs those Dothraki?
The straight line never really works out
for anyone on this show, so that's a good point.
But we could take a straight line south
back to Meereen.
Yeah, the northeast corridor here, you know...
- Take the dragon Acela? - Yeah.
Let's go to where Tyrion
is still running things in Meereen.
Interesting choice, but maybe a good fit for him.
Yeah.
Since we last saw Meereen,
there's been a bit of an arson problem breaking out.
We got riots in the fighting pits
at the end of last season.
Now we've got arson and, even the worst of all...
- Yeah. - Graffiti.
Well, actually the worst of all is the apparent scourge
of rich men wandering around offering women money
to buy and eat their babies.
He really needs to work on his--
- It's a conjugation issue.
That's really what it is. His dialect, yeah.
The interesting thing about Tyrion, though, here
is that, you know, as we learn from his time at the helm
in King's Landing,
he's really good at middle management.
- Yeah. - It's not glamorous.
But maybe this is what he's best at.
Look, "Game of Thrones," in a lot of ways,
these characters, their arc is becoming
who they're supposed to be,
even if they don't know that's who they're supposed to be.
And Tyrion, I think,
had a pretty low self-esteem.
You know, even if he was rather popular in the brothels
of the known world...
Yeah, that's fair.
He thought very lowly of himself.
His mother died during childbirth.
His father rejected him.
His sister has rejected him.
But what if he's sort of found his level?
He was never gonna be king,
but what if he's gonna be a really great bureaucrat?
Yeah, I think the interesting thing to note going forward is
watching one of our favorite characters
become essentially comptroller
while the world burns all around him.
- Yeah. - How is that gonna translate?
[chuckles]
Let's go a little bit west and north
and go to Braavos.
Yeah, we mentioned Arya had an unhappy ending
last season losing her sight, and now, I mean, look at her,
begging for the redistribution of wealth--
a future Bernie voter here...
- I know, on the streets. - Home of the Iron Bank.
[laughing] In the shadow of a big bank.
- Break up the Iron Bank. - It's "The Big Short."
Arya's pretty much where we left her--
blind and confused.
Yeah, and no longer able to shuck oysters
or afford them, basically...
[laughing] I know.
Which, to me, is a great tragedy as a lover of seafood.
Can you imagine if she's blind and she's just like,
"Oysters, clams, and cockles," but she's holding,
like, a sausage or something like that?
Yeah, where's that knife gonna go when she shucks?
I think it'll be interesting to watch her basically
be rebuilt from scratch now that she finally has reached
what I can only hope is her lowest point.
My only wish for her is that she spent a long off-season
binge-watching episodes of "Daredevil,"
because that's really gonna come in handy
as she trains to become a blind ninja.
The Waif was there helping her out
with her--what do they call that, a bo staff?
That's not what I call it. I call it shovel.
[both laugh] You tell me.
Let's keep moving.
I want to go south to Dorne.
Yeah, I've always wanted to go south to Dorne.
It seems lovely-- well, at least it did,
up until this episode.
Regime change.
In a very aggressive way.
Yeah, Ellaria, after planting that kiss
on Myrcella at the end of season five
and thus taking another Lannister child from us,
she went up to her brother and said,
"I think that there's time for a new leader."
Yeah, this was a pretty intense scene,
to see the entrenched leadership
taken out so violently.
I think what's interesting here is that
constantly we see these characters that,
as humans in our world, we have fondness for.
Like, when we met Prince Doran last year--
this is Oberyn's brother who was in the wheelchair
and in charge of Dorne--
I felt kindly towards him because he seemed
to really put out the potentially dangerous fire
that was about be ignited
when Jaime and Bran ran up in there
and attempts to rescue Myrcella.
He was trying to play the longer game.
He was looking at the world and global peace
and put that ahead of the interpersonal relations
within his court.
As we learned in The North last year,
taking the long view is not generally a popular take.
Compromise is frowned upon.
Yeah, so that was pretty brutal
but pretty fascinating in a way that we're
gonna touch on in a second just in terms
of who is now wielding a level--
the levers of power on the show.
It'll be really interesting, just moving forward,
to see what happens in Dorne,
because if you noticed,
not a lot of outcry when this happened.
No.
You know, the palace guards,
who were standing around Dorne there,
they were just sort of like...
My question is, how does it affect the 2016 harvest?
Like, are they doing crush early
with the grapes this year or not?
I'm very worried.
God, the port is magnificent down there.
Okay, we got to get to where it all started
here at King's Landing,
one of the most dramatic settings in this whole show.
Yeah.
Jaime is back. He has brought Myrcella.
That's a heartbreaking scene on the dock sort of...
- Devastating. - When Cersei sees what--
she's hoping is gonna be reunited with her daughter,
and it turns out that Myrcella is no longer with us.
One more thing taken from her.
Now, Jaime and Cersei, you know, they were united,
and I kind of was worried,
I mean, as a Jaime-Cersei shipper.
Yeah, the original shipper, by the way, of these two
and perhaps the only one.
I just happen to find them a very, very compelling couple.
You just want those kids to work it out.
Yeah, just--just try to make something real in this world.
But I thought that this was gonna be the last straw.
They've lost Joffrey.
They've lost Myrcella.
Tommen is sort of in the grips of Margaery
when--you know, before the Faith Militant and the Sparrow.
Who, by the way, is still imprisoned.
Yes, exactly.
But this seemed to not only bring them together
but even embolden them, and we have a clip of that.
Let's take a look.
You told me yourself when Father died.
You said we had to stay together.
You said people would try to tear us apart,
take what's ours.
That was a prophecy too; I didn't listen to you,
and everything you said came true.
Fuck prophecy.
Fuck fate. Fuck everyone who isn't us.
We're the only ones who matter, the only ones in this world.
And everything they've taken from us
we're going to take back and more.
[solemn music]
We're going to take everything there is.
♪ ♪
You don't want to see Cersei angry.
You don't want to see them united and angry either.
You don't want to see them united and angry
and with a Frankenstein monster.
That's a strong point.
We have not yet seen the return of Ser Robert Strong...
- Bobby Strong! - Reanimated--
The reanimated Mountain. - Yeah!
It's interesting to note, though,
that basically everything that has happened on the show
has come from this unholy union between Cersei and Jaime--
I'm sorry, beautiful love story between Cersei and Jaime--
going all the way back to the very first episode
when it was their, um-- how should I put it--
romantic coupling that Bran spied upon,
causing him to be thrown out of the window.
Come on! Take the express elevator, Bran.
Exactly--well, depending which side
of that particular gold coin you're on,
you could basically blame everything that happened
in the world on their love affair,
and it'll be interesting to note that while they are
once again united against the world,
the world is very much united against them.
It's noteworthy that you brought up that first episode,
because I believe it is in that episode
that after he gives Bran
just the lightest of playful shoves...
Just a little heat check.
- Out the window... - Yeah.
Jaime says something like, "The things I do for love."
Yeah.
Over the course of this series--
- That's my favorite Sondheim song.
[laughs]
Over the course of this series,
Jaime has gone from the Kingslayer
and just being an absolute bully,
you know, to, pretty much since he's been with Brienne
on the road, becoming more and more of a human being,
more and more dignified, and actually having
some principles and some humanity.
And I kind of wonder, after that moment
he had with Myrcella at the end of season five
where he got to finally feel like a father...
He was finally seeing; he was finally vulnerable.
Having that taken from him,
I wonder if we're--the Kingslayer about to be back.
- Kingslayer back? - Yeah.
Interesting to note. Should we move north?
Yeah, let's go north. I love it up there.
Yeah, it's a little chilly for me.
Up in Winterfell and around Winterfell,
Ramsay and Roose Bolton coming off the routing
of Stannis Baratheon's forces.
And Ramsay's like, "Look what I did.
I burned the horses too. What do you want from me?"
- [laughs] - There's no pleasing dad.
You know? - No.
Roose has always got notes.
[laughing] Roose has some deep notes
on the editorial choices he made.
Basically, Roose is like,
"You know, my wife is pregnant.
"Let's hope for your sake it's not a son.
"Because of the games you played with Sansa Stark,
who is our most valuable pawn"...
Right.
"We now have a very tenuous hold on The North,
"so if the unborn child is a son,
I'm gonna legitimize this kid and not you."
It's gonna be interesting to see
how the Boltons-- do they rise as a family?
Do they solidify their control of Winterfell
and surrounding northern areas?
I have a hard time seeing it
just from a simple branding perspective.
That's a great point.
You know, in my offtime,
I like to do a little bit of consulting on that.
Yeah.
And just to me, the flayed man,
it doesn't really invite in people, you know?
Have you seen the furry mascot they have, though,
the one that dunks at the local basketball games?
He does it upside down. It's hiphop.
- It's amazing. - Yeah.
Andy, okay, so every week on "Game of Thrones,"
what we like to do is--
and, oh, I know that we have Sansa here in Winterfell too.
- Oh, we're gonna get to her. - And we're gonna get to Sansa.
I mean, Sansa is gonna be a huge factor this season.
But going a little bit farther north to Castle Black,
now, every week, Andy and I are gonna award someone who--
we're gonna say who won the week.
Right? - Yeah.
And this is gonna be the character
that we were just sort of most impressed by
that we felt like was the most interesting storyline.
Because it's worth noting, there aren't many winners
in the game of thrones, so to speak.
Yeah, you can't say--
you can't say who won the world yet
because, you know, more often than not,
they don't live to see that type of victory,
but who won the week this week?
And we're gonna go to Castle Black.
Yeah.
And we're gonna pick a little bit of a--
- I'm psyched. - Yeah.
We're gonna go with Davos Seaworth.
The Onion Knight.
Now, he is a long-time favorite of ours.
Yeah.
- And he's always been a... - That's my guy.
A very somber, very common sense approach
to this world.
- That's right. - Yeah, and why did you--
why do you think he won the week?
The thing about Davos is that he's been lurking
in the background basically since season two.
Look at him just lurking right there.
He's lurking behind us right now.
- Yeah. - I'm a little freaked out.
He's had enormous proximity to power
by being Stannis' hand for these last few years,
but he's also seen a lot of terrible things
and has a very healthy perspective on it, you know?
Yeah.
He was much more invested
in the health and life of Shireen Baratheon
than he was her father, ultimately.
And I think because we've grown to care about him,
to see him suddenly brought from the sidelines
onto the center stage,
as you alluded to in the beginning--
with Jon gone, the spotlight is on him
to save the day-- he seems like--
I know I just said that reasonable people
get shivved on the show,
so I'm really hoping that doesn't happen here,
but he is kind of our avatar, right?
Like, he is the guy who we believe in and hope for.
He's the only one that I think
hasn't murdered someone out of turn.
Like, he--there are very few people to root for
unabashedly, and he's one of them.
I really hesitate to put money on that
just because you just never know in this world.
Look, war is war.
We don't know what happened when the camera wasn't on
during the Blackwater, but--
- What happens on the Onion boat stays on the Onion boat.
[laughs] Including his fingers.
I agree with you; I feel like this show,
when you have somebody that you can kind of identify with
in some way, whether it's you can aspire
to the kind of kindness that Robb or Jon showed
or you believe in somebody the way, you know,
we were able to believe in Dany when Daenerys--
when she really took control of, like--
- Right.
And freed all those slaves,
like, that's, like, inspiring stuff,
but Davos is a great audience avatar
because he has seen it all
and he is just trying to make it to another day.
He's seen the highs
and very, very low lows of this world,
and his son became a religious fanatic
and died at the Blackwater.
He's seen what Melisandre can do, good and bad,
mostly bad, and, you know, I think it's worth noting
he's physically seen a lot more of the world
than a lot of the other characters have.
He was at the Blackwater.
He's been all the way to Essos.
He's been to Braavos
when he traveled there to the Iron Bank with Stannis.
He's been in The North.
He's aware of the stakes, the global stakes,
in a way other characters aren't.
All in. All in on Davos. Yeah, all in on Davos.
So for as much as we want to say who won the week...
Yeah, we have another question to ask.
"Game of Thrones" throws a lot at you.
A lot of people, a lot of death.
We're here to help.
Okay, so every episode, you might be watching the show,
and you just--somebody gets a little bit more
screen time than you're expecting,
and you're just sitting there, and you're going,
"Who the fuck was that?"
This week, on "Who The F!&k Was That?",
we're talking about your boy, Edd Tollett.
- Dolorous Edd. - Who's Edd?
- Who is Edd? - We're here to help.
Okay, Edd has been around for a long time.
Edd's been around the show since season two.
He's a member of The Night's Watch.
And he looks like he just walked off the set
of "Trainspotting."
Yeah, he's kind of got a young Robert Carlyle look,
like he's about to glass you.
Here's the thing about Edd.
He's been loyal to Jon since season two.
And he got his nickname Dolorous
because he's very cynical and pessimistic.
You might remember him from season two.
Let's be clear; you really might not remember him
from season two.
But if you did, you might remember
that he basically introduced himself with a long anecdote--
touching anecdote, really, sensitive, emotive anecdote
about how when his mother died, she passed gas
for a very long time.
That's Edd.
And so what's kind of amazing about the setup here--
- A stirring orator. - Yeah, from both ends.
The incredible thing about Edd in this episode
is that the fate of, we believe,
the world's basically resting on his
potentially unworthy shoulders.
He's the guy who was sent out of the bunker
where they're protecting Jon Snow's body
to get the Wildlings to come help them.
And you may remember at the end of season five,
before Sam leaves to go to the Citadel,
Jon and Sam have a little bit of a chat,
just a post-game talk, and Sam's like,
"I got to go," and Jon's like,
"Please don't, because I'm gonna be all alone if you do."
And Sam's like, "You got Edd."
And Jon just hits him with the, like,
Jim Halpert stare, like, "Eh..."
Yeah, like, "That guy's gonna help me?"
So I think it's valuable to note that if you're a superfan
of the show, you recognized how unlikely it is
that Edd is basically in charge of saving the world.
If you don't recognize him, it has the same effect,
because you're like, "This guy?"
Yeah, exactly.
Andy, every week, one thing we want to do
is sort of look at what the episode was really about,
what are the themes, what are sort of the big ideas.
This week, I think, on "The Big Idea,"
what we really want to talk about is the role of women
on the show and the maybe possible rise to power
of a few of them.
I think the one thing that is often challenging
to be a long-time fan of "Game of Thrones"
is to see characters that we've grown to love and care about
be just mercilessly crushed by the entrenched
systems of power.
When people hear "fantasy show," I think they often think,
"It'll be transporting.
"I'll get out of a world where there are
entrenched systems of power crushing us."
That is very much not often the case on the show.
But what was fascinating to me about the episode last night
is that we started to get a few rays of hope--
not hope in a traditional sense of seeing
the Night's King melted, but hope in the sense
of seeing characters begin--
- Wait, you're not cheering for the Night's King?
No, long-term, long-term.
Seeing these characters maybe begin to change the dynamic,
be able to take control of these systems
and basically revolutionize the world in subtle ways.
We saw that in a very aggressive way in Dorne,
when Ellaria Sand basically took control of an entire...
She voted with her knife.
Beautiful winemaking kingdom.
Let's just say, protect the grapes at all costs.
But to me, the most touching example of it--
and really, really, I think it was subtle,
but I think it means a lot for the show going forward--
is what we saw happen with Sansa and Brienne
in the woods after the rescue.
- A quite moving scene, yeah. - I think we have a clip of it.
Yeah, let's watch it. Let's go look at the clip.
Lady Sansa, I offer my services once again.
I will shield your back and keep your counsel
and give my life for yours if need be.
I swear it by the Old Gods and the New.
And I vow...
that you shall always have a place by my hearth
and...
Meet and mead at my table.
And I pledge to ask no service of you
that might bring you dishonor.
I swear it by the Old Gods and the New.
Arise.
Touching stuff.
We are now joined by Mallory Rubin,
who is our very own Mother of Dragons.
We work with Mallory at The Ringer.
Mal, welcome to the show.
We wanted to talk to you about this really
kind of beautiful scene with Brienne and Sansa.
What were you thinking when you saw this?
I was literally cheering out loud.
And it might shock you to hear that I'm a fairly
reserved person by nature.
Like, when Manny Machado homers, I'm just like,
"Nicely done, Manny."
But I actually felt compelled to clap and whoot.
It was such an awesome moment, especially for someone, like,
who didn't want to play with dolls as a kid,
wanted to play, like, baseball or Quidditch or something,
this was, like, a really cool moment to see women
who've been beaten up and downtrodden
empowered and put in a position of authority.
I thought it was pretty amazing to see
these two characters that we've grown to love and care about
reciting language that, within the world of the show,
is quite old, right?
This has been said between knights and vassals and lords,
and you can correct me on the language on that.
But they've been saying these words for a very long time.
And for Sansa to be in the position to be reciting it
to the point where she doesn't even know the words,
she has to call for line, that was very significant,
I think, hopefully for the politics
of the show going forward.
It was very cool to see the-- one of the two men
in the situation, sex god Pod,
just being there to feed the dialogue, you know,
and not actually playing a central role at all.
Think about Sansa's journey, right?
Season one, all she cared about was heading down
to King's Landing to marry Joffrey
and give him golden-haired babies, right?
She wanted to be a bride. She wanted to be a mom.
To be clear, you meant to give birth to those babies,
not to bring them in a very "Game of Thrones" fashion.
Exactly, exactly.
And season two, think of the advice that she's
getting from another powerful woman on the show, Cersei.
You know, "Tears aren't a woman's only weapon.
The best weapon you have is the one between your legs."
Like, cool advice, Mom, but they...
That's definitely the conversation you want to have
with your mother-in-law.
You know, mothers-in-law can be a little bit difficult.
Sansa is learning that she has a lot of other weapons
at her disposal, including agency.
Are we seeing a profound shift in the world
of "Game of Thrones" from one in which women really are--
can only avail themselves of soft power
to one where they can avail themselves of hard power?
I mean, that's certainly how I would characterize
the power down in Dorne.
I think so.
I think we're seeing it in two places.
We saw it in Dorne with Ellaria
and the Sand Snakes physically removing the threat,
removing the opposition,
but also Brienne, who's always been sort of
the physical manifestation of a powerful, strong woman.
We know she has an amazing Valyrian steel sword,
Oathkeeper, but a man gave it to her.
We know she has armor, but a man gave it to her.
The one thing that she's never really had
is a sense of belonging or self-worth until right now,
because she was finally able to honor the vow that she made
not only to people she cares about but to herself.
Well, it means a lot to both of them.
Because Sansa, for a long time, has--whether she's been
looking or not, has needed some protection.
And every time she's had someone who seems like
they've got her back, they've actually got other plans,
whether it's Littlefinger or what have you.
Brienne, on the other hand, has been looking
for someone to protect.
She's been looking for someone who's alive
to actually, you know, serve.
And they've finally found each other,
and that's what I think makes it such an effective moment.
It's worth noting the people you're referring to
that were taking care of Sansa were generally all men,
from Joffrey, to Littlefinger, to the Boltons.
This is a new paradigm and potentially one that's gonna
change the dynamics of power in the world going forward.
Exactly, even when Littlefinger is sort of
trying to convince Sansa that she's making
the right decision, he is still pulling the strings.
This is the first time that Sansa has said,
"I can make my own choices."
She chose to jump off the battlements at Winterfell.
She chose to take Theon's hand and to trust him.
And she chose to ask Brienne for help.
Is it worth making the point, too, that if this series
is kind of the story of the downfall of the Starks
and hopefully the reinvention of the Starks,
that those who we hoped or we've expected
to basically carry the banner for the Starks,
literally, like Robb, are off the board,
and the ones who could potentially lead
the resurrection of the entire family are the more
marginalized members of the family, starting with the women?
It's a great point, and let's remember
that Robert's Rebellion took place
because of another Stark woman, Lyanna.
But for those of us who don't remember,
you should probably tell us what that is.
Lyanna Stark, Ned Stark's sister,
Robert's betrothed, was--
- Former King Robert, Joffrey's--
- Not king at the time.
- Robert Baratheon. - Robert Baratheon.
- The Usurper, yeah. - The Usurper?
Exactly, before he was king, he was engaged
to be married to Lyanna Stark, Ned's sister.
She was kidnapped and raped by Rhaegar Targaryen,
Dany's older brother, not Viserys,
the brother we've seen on screen,
the brother we never saw, the Last Dragon,
the harp player.
And the last time a Stark woman played a central role
in a war, it was as a victim.
And this time, characters like Sansa and Arya
can play central roles in the war as heroes.
Yeah, they just got to fix the blind thing.
That--I think that's gonna help.
We got to just wrap that up. Yeah, exactly.
There's another powerful woman in this show right now.
Or is she powerful?
We're trying to figure that out.
We're talking, of course, about the titular Red Woman,
Melisandre, who had quite a moment in front of a mirror.
And to help us understand that, we're gonna bring on
our Maester, Jason Concepcion.
So now we're joined by our expert, Jason Concepcion.
Jason also works with us at The Ringer.
Jason, welcome.
I got to ask, first up,
is Melisandre 400 years old?
What did we just see there?
Well, there have been suggestions throughout the show
and throughout the books that Melisandre's not
everything she appears to be.
I mean, you think back to her arrival at Castle Black,
when she's riding in the elevator with Jon,
and she takes his hand and puts it to her cheek,
and he's concerned that she might be cold,
because all she dresses in is a gauzy red gown.
She says, you know, "The Lord of Light's
fire burns within me."
To be fair, in my experience,
old people are generally very cold.
So I don't know how that was a tell.
But, yeah, so we've seen these suggestions
that she's not what she appears to be,
and now we know it.
But what significance does that have
for the long game that we are hoping to see from her,
which is basically can Melisandre bring
Jon Snow back to life?
She's there in the adjoining room.
She's present.
And I believe we've seen resurrection on the show before.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
We know that the Red God, R'hllor,
which is the deity of her religion,
has brought back people from the dead before.
Thoros of Myr, who is one of the Brotherhood Without Banners--
- I love those guys; they love to party, season three.
Chilling in the trap house out in The Riverlands.
Much better brand than the Boltons, just FYI, yeah.
He brought back Beric Dondarrion numerous times
with the Lord's prayer.
We saw that scene.
We saw The Hound kill him, and he came back to life,
and they wouldn't have shown it if it didn't
have some significance, right?
Important to remember, though, he didn't do it on purpose.
He was surprised when it happened.
And Melisandre, even, when she saw it, was like,
"How is this possible?"
So the thing is, we've all, I think,
been watching this show.
There's always the question,
"Is Melisandre for real, or is she kind of a charlatan?"
You know, she put those leeches on the fire couple seasons ago,
naming people that she wanted to see killed.
Two of them died, but is that just lucky,
or is it intentional?
Two out of three is good for baseball,
not necessarily for world domination.
Did what we see last night complicate the potential
for her to do what we want to do going forward?
- Yeah, it did. - Wow, wow.
And do you think-- I guess this is a question
for either one of you-- do you think, in her head--
obviously, with the taking off the necklace,
the necklace is glowing as she's putting it on the table.
I don't know if she noticed that, you know,
but she gets under the covers.
I mean, she seems like somebody who doesn't believe
she has her fastball anymore.
She seems like somebody who just wants to feel
that fur against her bare skin.
That did seem like a pretty--
- Who among us on this set doesn't?
Seriously, that was better thread count than I've seen
in most high-end hotels, and they're basically
in a bunker in Castle Black.
I think one of the things that's important to remember
is that prophecy plays a really important role in this story,
and visions are a form of prophecy.
And this may be a case where she is misinterpreting
her own visions, because she says numerous times to Stannis,
"I've seen myself walking the battlements at Winterfell.
I've seen the Bolton banners burning."
She might just have the timeline a little bit wrong.
Oof, that's not great. So...
What's the significance of the necklace, really quickly?
It's a glamour necklace, probably.
I'm gonna guess it's from Qohor.
You don't know what that is.
It's an eastern city, black magic.
- But it glowed. - Yes.
I thought you said it was from Kohl's.
I thought it was from--
- Usually it glows when it's being--
when her power is being used?
- Yeah, it's part of her power. - Okay, that's good to know.
All right, so here we are. We're at the end of episode one.
And we want to look forward to the rest of the season.
Yeah, we've got nine more hours to this season,
a lot of stuff to look forward to,
and I think the best thing to do is just--
we'll go around the table here and talk about
some big questions that we hope to see answered this year.
And I know this isn't just the beginning of the questions,
the tip of the iceberg, so to speak.
Let's look at them.
Yeah, so I mean, my first question here is,
"What is Daenerys's plan to get to Westeros?"
I think that this whole Dothraki episode
will be very interesting to watch how it plays out.
Last time she was with the Dothraki,
it was a real up and down affair.
There was some peaks and valleys.
Yeah, I would say that.
There was love; there was hate.
- There was horse heart. - There was horse heart.
I think that this is gonna turn out to be more
of a recruiting mission.
It's just a guess. I'm just saying.
I feel like she's been there before,
and she's gonna be like Urban Meyer
going after five-star recruits.
These guys can fight.
They might come in handy.
I wonder if they're gonna have something to do with it.
Quick follow-up on that, to Mallory,
can horses float?
Because that would be key.
Because I appreciate her desire to recruit an army
of horse-bound warriors, but there's still
that ocean thing, right?
Dany's the first person who ever got the Dothraki
to cross the poison water.
She's halfway home, you know?
I can't believe I stumbled into a relevant question.
My favorite question there is if you keep dragons
chained up in a catacomb, is that, like,
putting a goldfish in, like, a tank that's too small?
Like, does it stunt their growth, you know?
- That does seem cruel. - That's a good question.
We'll have to call CGI PETA about that.
Jason, you have a question.
Who's got the Boltons' back in the coming war
between the Starks and the Boltons?
I was wondering this earlier.
It's--they don't inspire a lot of confidence in terms--
- Yeah, usually the Boltons like to flay the back skin
off of people.
They got a very long history of doing so,
and in that case, I can't imagine
that there would be too many houses that would support them.
Because we've been seeing them do dirt for a couple seasons now
and doing it mainly through these sort of
back-channel shenanigans with the Lannisters
and, "Wink, wink, we'll support you."
The significance of Sansa and Theon's jump
goes far beyond our desire to see those characters freed.
It has severely weakened their position.
Absolutely.
It gives the northern houses, like, a focal point
to say, "The Starks are still alive.
"They're back.
"We don't like these Boltons, because they keep
cutting our skin off."
- All right. - "Let's do this."
Mallory, what's your question?
Bran, my man, Bran.
We haven't seen Bran yet.
My little Raisin Bran, my little Bran muffin.
Now, we haven't seen him in an entire season.
Bran was not in season five.
And so this would've been the same question
that I asked after season four, but now I just had,
like, an extra level of, like, pent-up excitement.
What are the extents of Bran's powers?
We know that he can warg, both into his direwolf, Summer,
and into Hodor, a human being.
We know that that is exceptional
and not something that other wargs can do.
Warging is when you ghost ride someone else or another animal
by putting your consciousness into their body.
Exactly, warging is what the three of us do to Chris
to help him get through this...
And we're all doing a great job.
- Am I here right now? - Puppet masters.
And we know that he has been on a quest
to meet the three-eyed raven.
Yeah, can we just--because I feel like this is important.
He's coming back this season.
Can you just remind us where he's been and where he is?
He's underneath a tree. He's underneath a weirwood tree.
- So easy. - My little Keebler Elf.
He's tapping into the roots of Westeros.
And I think that Bran is gonna play a central role
this season in helping us learn more about backstory
and history, but I want to know the extent of his powers,
and relatedly, I want to know if his siblings
share those powers and just don't know it yet.
Okay, finally, we come to my question, which is,
"What's the best area to live in in 'Game of Thrones'?"
You're such a property brother.
I know, but bear with me, right?
Coming into this season, I was pretty sure
there was a clear answer, and it's obvious, right?
It's Dorne. - Lovely tilework.
Think about the things that I value most.
I love indoor/outdoor living.
I love warming, gentle spices.
I like a chewy red with my dinner.
This is perfect, right?
I love strong, powerful women.
And then I watch the season premiere,
and I'm beginning to worry a little bit about
the enormous strength and power of the women
and how they got that power.
So do you actually have a place you want to live?
Well, can I choose option B?
Can I just say nowhere?
- Oh. - If not--
- Cop-out. - Okay, I got a wild card.
I would like to go to sea with sex pirate Salladhor Saan.
Now, this guy's still my favorite character.
We have not seen him since season three,
but that's 'cause he's having too much fun,
and he's too smart to join the fray, right?
- He was featured, also, on HBO's "Real Sex: Sex Pirate."
- Which, by the way-- - Fantastic episode.
Hopefully that's coming up next.
That's the next show.
All I need is just some Dramamine,
and I'm off to sea with this guy,
and you guys fight your wars, kill the ice kings,
and then we'll just have fun, right?
Let's have fun. That's the point.
On behalf of Jason Concepcion, Andy Greenwald,
Mallory Rubin, I'm Chris Ryan.
Thank you for watching "After the Thrones."
You can catch up with "Game of Thrones"
on HBO NOW, GO, and On-Demand.
We'll be back next week.
Valar morghulis.
- All men must banter. - [laughing]
Did I say "valar morghulis" right?
- You got it. You nailed it. - Yes.
- You nailed it. - Okay.
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