Please just get it over with. Say I'm fired.
You're going to just have to wait because what you've done...
... you don't get to just resign.
- I can pick up the girls later. - Oh, no, it's fine.
It's not like I'm not grateful,
I just don't want them getting too attached.
Oh, yeah, of course.
Shit.
Lennie, no-one can say which way life will fall,
but there are some decisions that you can control.
The end of your life doesn't mean the end of your marriage.
I don't want to miss life.
I want to marry you, Ronnie.
Come here, Ruth.
How do we do this?
I don't know.
I've missed him so much, Ma.
It's never too late.
Don't forget about New York.
I love you, Hannah Defoe.
Ball's in your court.
Do you love her?
Yes.
Over the last few months here at LoveCast,
I've had the privilege to dig deep
and delve into that age-old question...
... can there ever be the good divorce?
A laying down of arms and sanguine recognition
that not all divorce is failure.
Simply, some marriages are finite.
And why do we place so much weight on the idea that things must last?
Surely what constitutes a successful relationship
is knowing when it's over,
being brave enough to call time.
The desire of two people who have spent their lives together,
good lives together, who are not willing to throw it all away
for a few months of pain.
Isn't that what also constitutes a good divorce?
One where memories are left to exist untainted,
where children are guided through the storm,
where two people can say, "We did it well,
we took care of one another",
even if the marriage is no more.
I tell my clients, "Be brave,
don't be afraid.
Who knows what you might find on the other side?"
You know I'm OK, right?
You know you don't need to stay with me?
Where else am I going to go?
Er, home.
I'm going to a meeting. Good.
Thank you for pushing me on,
making me get back out there.
I know what you're doing. You need to get back out there, too.
You need to go home.
Maybe meet the family, Rose.
What have you got to lose?
Huh?
The worst's already happened.
Remember, James's heart is still beating.
Your 11 o'clock's here.
Thanks.
Goldie?
Back for another round.
Boxing promoter.
He's half her age.
- Wow. - I know.
Well, "look at the diamonds" is all I'm saying.
That woman is doing something very right.
You're not doing so bad yourself.
There she is.
So?
- Wow. - Uh-huh.
18-carat, white gold, the rock is...
Congratulations.
Not married yet.
Shall we?
Oh, yeah.
I am ready to sign.
OK, so I've tried to protect you as best I can in this prenup,
- but Mr Mukherjee is undoubtedly... - Loaded.
Yes.
- And on his... - Third marriage.
- Surprising for someone so... - Short. Yeah.
Young.
- He's coming up to... ? - 29.
Mm-hm.
And we have put in an infidelity penalty clause,
though it should be noted that these are... they're unorthodox
and they're rarely upheld in court.
Bitten once, not twice.
I don't need his money, and he doesn't need mine.
How's Davey?
Heart attack.
Poor guy.
Wow.
Go on, say it.
He's too young, you're too old, it'll never last.
Yeah, you won't be the first or the last, but...
... he makes me feel fantastic.
You, however...
... never got over him getting caught with his pants down.
It's a little bit more complicated than that.
Give it time.
- Goldie... - A very good family lawyer told me that once.
Mm-hm.
I was broken after Davey, humiliated.
You help me fight to get my life back.
You said to me, "Everything you once thought you were,
everything you thought you knew,
that's all in the past", and you were right.
So now it is time to get back in the ring
and give life a few more rounds.
Change is coming.
Don't be afraid of the change.
Come to my bridal shower.
You need to let your hair down for a night.
Hannah?
Have you seen Hannah?
Nathan, wh-what are you doing here?
- Hannah! - What's wrong?
I think I'm having a heart attack.
I've got this...
- I've got this, er... - It's fine.
- Nathan, slow down. - I've got a pain right here.
- Do you want me to call an ambulance? - He's fine.
Take a breath.
It's like a... a belt across my chest.
And I know it's... I should stand up, really.
Breathe.
You're being ridiculous. It's not a heart attack.
John Candy, Luther Vandross, Chairman Mao,
I'm in a pretty nonexclusive club.
Don't be so dramatic. You're hyperventilating.
- It's a panic attack. - Feels like a bloody heart attack.
Just sit down.
OK.
- Take some deep breaths. - OK.
Try and relax.
I'm really busy.
Can I get back to my work now?
I talked to Kate.
Right. And?
It didn't go very well.
She does know there's nothing going on between you and me?
She does know that we... did not sleep together?
Yeah, not exactly. She fled on her bike
before I could finish my train of thought.
Oh, God, where are you going with this?
I may... I may have said that my feelings for you are...
... complex.
Be-because they are complex for you.
I have complex feelings for you. Don't you?
No.
Yes.
Yeah.
Like I have complex feelings for many things, like veganism
and disproportionate amount of time
that Tilly's spending on social media.
That... that doesn't mean...
I have also said that...
... I still...
... love you.
Not still. Not still. I always...
... will love you.
You still love me.
What am I meant to do with that, Nathan?
You're having a baby with Kate.
If I was to say from today...
... you will never see her again.
How does that make you feel?
I don't get your question.
If this had never happened, if you'd never met Kate,
if she'd never come into your life,
one word.
Sad.
Hmm.
Doesn't that answer your question, Nathan?
- Hannah. - I have to go.
No, we have to talk.
Isn't that what lawyers are for?
Incidentally, you want to talk to yours.
She counter-fired with a pretty blistering attack.
Hannah, wait.
I don't want to do this.
I don't want to get divorced.
What if we're making a mistake?
Hannah.
You're fighting.
You're just frightened.
I get that.
But don't confuse that with believing that you and I...
- I'm not. - Nathan.
We can't fix this, Nathan.
Thank you.
Hi there, I've got Mr Stern at reception.
Tell him that I'm not in for the rest of the day.
No more calls, all right?
Apologies.
The press have been going crazy.
But if you can't beat them, join them, as they say.
Oh, yes, yes, your son.
Yes, I've just got off the phone with Long Lost Family.
Could you take that to my office?
Don't you just adore Davina McCall?
Look, everything has turned out rather well overall,
although I won't let him call me mother or grandmother,
and rather irritatingly his children find it highly amusing
to call me Melania.
One son, two grandsons.
Instant family.
Slightly claustrophobia-inducing but it could be worse.
And to be honest, as a unit, they are rather easy on the eye,
bar the wife, who could afford to lose a few pounds.
But I have to say it has been really marvellous for my profile.
Right, now, I think we go back in hard.
While they do their little financial tap dance,
we fire back on the value of her share in the partnership.
I'd like to see you get at least a quarter.
No.
No, sorry, no, no, no, you're right, half.
Yours was a partnership that enabled her
to have such a successful career.
I mean no.
You're a terrible woman, Melanie.
But what else is your lawyer for?
Terrible is my raison d'etre.
I don't want a quarter of Hannah's shares.
I don't want to be talking to you in this Godawful office.
You're a terrible, terrible person, Melanie.
You've never asked me what I want.
You just tell people what they're going to get, at whatever cost.
Let's be frank, sweetheart, if you wanted it any other way...
I would have gone to Hannah.
Touche.
Hi, you're through to the Transplant Family Liaison Office.
Alison speaking, how may I help you?
Hi. Hi, it's Rose... Cutler.
Hi, good to hear from you.
- Hi. - How are you?
Yeah, yeah, I'm good.
Erm...
Er, so...
Yeah, I just wanted to know whether...
... well, the family, if they might be free tomorrow.
The family are very eager to meet you.
- Mm. - I'm so glad you've reached out.
Let me liaise with them and get back to you. Hmm?
OK.
Yep.
Same old, same old.
Get up, say this time'll be different.
It's not.
Every time.
Every time, same excuse, the same self-deception.
Thank you, Lisa.
Oh, it is you.
I didn't realise you...
- See ya. - Bye.
I actually prefer the Chelsea meetings.
There's a lot more interesting people
and the occasional blue blood.
But I come here when I don't want to see anyone I know.
So, I hear you were shafted.
Go on.
What? Oh, rip you apart.
No, you have to do that yourself, darling.
Step four: take a searching and fearless
moral inventory of ourselves.
We're dry drunks, sweetheart.
We still do damage, often to others,
but most of all to ourselves.
I shagged my best friend's boyfriend when I was 14.
At 22, husband of a woman I worked for.
I can't remember his name.
Er, at 25...
... didn't know the wife, didn't care anyway.
Lost count after that.
Felt nothing.
Always felt nothing.
Feel nothing.
I've stolen from shops, from friends...
- ... from my family. - Mm-hm.
So I guess you could call recent events calmer.
- Haven't had a drink in ten months. - That's great.
- Yeah, weirdly, that's been the easiest part. - Mm-hm.
Dry drunk, that sounds about right.
Stone-cold sober I can still do all of the above.
I don't like myself.
But worse, I've got this...
... tiny baby, tiny little thing staring back at me with such love...
... because she doesn't know how truly horrible her mother is.
Not yet.
I can't bear for her ever to see it.
Then you'd better put in the work, darling.
One day at a time, sweetheart. One day at a time.
Go home,
hug that little girl,
and do better.
That's what I tell myself anyway.
- Bye-bye. - Bye.
Hannah, I fired Melanie.
I-I don't want to do it like this.
It's a complete balls-up.
With you, Kate...
What do I do about Kate?
Oh, anyway, bye.
Hi.
Can I come in?
A lot of plants.
When we moved into our first flat,
Nathan's mother bought us a yucca plant.
Died within a month.
And for years, Nathan thought it was because of him.
I didn't try and dispel the myth.
But I killed it.
Who knew yuccas don't like coffee grounds?
Why are you here?
He watered it.
Not much,
just enough.
He does that.
Blanket fell off the kids at night,
he'd be the one to have to check.
He's quietly amazing...
... Nathan.
Hard to give up.
- Hannah... - I finished your book.
Didn't love it.
But it packs a punch.
What it doesn't say, though, is we can coat it in words,
we can find a language and a narrative
to house the inevitable fallout of divorce,
but to really, erm...
... capture its quiet brutality...
... that's something that can't be written.
That's something you can only feel.
You have to feel.
Otherwise, how else do you leave a marriage?
Anything worth its salt has roots that have grown deep.
They have to be
to tether you through the elements that inevitably hit along the way.
But if it's died...
... it's died.
Still doesn't mean it doesn't take a tug to lift it out the ground.
But that tug you're feeling, that's not because something is alive...
... it's because it's died,
and it needs to come out to let something new grow...
... some of our life in.
So, what I'm trying to say is...
... you can do worse than Nathan.
You might find you can't do better.
Why are you telling me this?
Because I love him.
And he loves you.
And so, by default, I care about what happens to you and him.
And my children...
... who will welcome this new person
once they get their heads around it.
And I want to be there to support them, you, this.
You don't even like me.
I don't have to like you.
I have to live with you.
And you have to live with me.
That's the deal.
That's the best I can offer.
Quite some terms.
I'm a lawyer,
what do you expect?
It's not neat...
... Nathan and I...
... but we're broken.
And we can't stay together broken
just because we're frightened of change.
You're the change.
You didn't kill it.
The yucca.
Coffee grounds, loads of nitrogen.
- Yuccas like nitrogen. - Huh.
So just keep blaming him, then?
Probably for the best.
Look, I'm not going to talk to you, I'm not going to do that shit...
... OK? 'Cos I'm so... I've been so bloody angry with you, James.
Like, really angry.
How could you be so stupid and... ?
You never heard my message.
You never heard me saying I was sorry
and of course I wanted that life with you.
So much.
But you're not here.
You can't hear this, so...
... where are you?
Because, like, I can't I can't feel you any more.
I used to feel you, you know, like when you walked in the door.
And now you're dead, and...
... I don't believe in heaven, and...
... there's no ghosts, so if you could just come back.
Please.
Just a second.
Because I need to know that
I wasn't wrong...
... and that you did exist.
That we... we did exist.
Rose!
Rose, are you coming home?
No, I, erm...
... I was just passing by.
- So... - Please, please.
No. Erm...
Please, please!
Please.
Erm...
Please, please.
No, it's... I should go.
I know I'm a terrible cook,
but there's always something worth defrosting in the freezer.
- Er... - Please say yes.
Come on, eat with us.
- OK. Yay! Woohoo! - Come on, girls.
Oh, watch yourself.
Hello, scamp. I like your dress.
Lennie.
The boys aren't back until...
Actually... it's you I wanted to talk to.
I've travelled the world with you, Felix.
Dived in Thailand,
climbed volcanoes in Costa Rica,
had some of my best adventures,
lived my best life with you.
But this is one journey you can't come with me on.
- No. - I know what death looks like.
Been preparing for a lifetime.
And I'll be ready...
... when it comes.
Sweet man. I won't let you do it.
I will care for you.
I will be by your side.
I will not let this happen to you alone.
I can't.
So I reject your attempts to push me away.
I reject your attempts to end us.
I reject your desire to leave me.
I reject divorce.
I do not...
... I will not leave you.
Everyone...
... has to leave someone one day.
Not yet.
Damn.
Like I said, terrible spy.
You're the one creeping out.
Thanks for today.
Oh, that's all right.
Who knew smiley faces would go so well with Jeanette's ragu?
Erm, sorry about yesterday,
- about picking up the girls. - Oh.
Yeah.
Quite the brush off.
But, no, I am sorry because that's the last thing I would want to do,
brush you off, brush you in any way.
I... We... We very much want... Where am I going with this?
Just stop. Stop.
I'm going to go.
- OK. Right. - Yeah.
Maybe...
... you have to let go of the life plan
if you want the life waiting for you.
Oh, no...
No, you've got me there.
Is that Tears For Fears or Kurt Cobain?
- Busted. - Is it?
- I knew it. - It was stuck on the wall of the dentist's yesterday.
You are wasted on the church.
If you can love that strongly,
you'll love again.
You should, erm, try these moves on Jeanette.
Might get lucky.
One day.
Felix...
... thanks for coming in today.
My understanding is that you and Lennie have talked now.
Yes.
We appreciate how difficult this is,
but on our advice, Lennie would like to make an advance decision
to refuse treatment under section 24 of the MCA 2005,
otherwise known as a living will.
My colleague is a private client solicitor
and she's going to talk you through it.
But loosely speaking, it's an advance directive
in light of Lennie's illness
that will ensure her wishes are carried out.
It is also my understanding that after discussion, alongside that,
you are also willing to look at possible continuing
and palliative care with the full support of your family, Lennie.
Yes.
But that if or when this becomes too difficult,
you will proceed with your original plan.
Yes.
As man and wife.
Absolutely.
As man and wife.
And beyond that, I'm right to presume
that you will no longer require our services.
- Yes. - Yes.
Then, with your lawyer in attendance,
Angela will now go through what this means
for both of you in the future.
With your consent, we should talk Felix through this document
and your instructions.
- See you Sunday. - Yeah.
The boys are really looking forward to seeing you.
Yes, absolutely. Yes.
Thank you.
You've got this.
You too.
Hannah.
So, I was wondering if you would like to grab dinner sometime.
Uh-huh.
I'm not looking to be poached.
That's, erm... HE CHUCKLES
That's not what I'm asking.
- Oh. - Just let me know if the time's ever right.
Mm-hm.
See you at four.
Aren't Melanie and Nathan coming in?
Actually...
... about that...
Hi.
OK, so we get 18 more months here, and then I sell,
and we divide the sale proceeds.
Yeah.
I get first pick on paintings,
- you get books. - Right. Agreed.
Now, health cover,
you obviously have another life to think of,
so I'm happy to transfer the policy so that it covers both Kate
and the new baby.
Right.
You've got to start thinking about these things.
Yeah.
- Now, holidays, I'm happy to split these. - Yeah.
So, if I could take Christmas Day this year.
Yeah, like I said, box set and Five Guys.
OK, weekends. You get every other weekend,
they spend the weekdays here, bar Wednesday, you get them Wednesday,
either at yours or here.
And finally...
- ... wills. - Urgh.
- We'll need to get them redrawn. - I'm not going anywhere yet.
You can't say that.
I'm not going anywhere, Hannah.
Yes, you are.
Every night, when I go to bed...
... you're not in it.
Every wall, every photo, every... inch of my life
I've shared with you, Nathan.
So for you not to be there...
... it's going to take... time.
But slowly I'll do it.
We'll fill the space with other things.
Other people.
Because it's time, Nathan.
It's time.
I love you, Miss Defoe.
Always, Mr Stern.
We're home.
Oh, Vinnie, not in the house.
Sorry.
Are you done?
Mm-hm.
Hey.
Vinnie, come here.
Gael, come.
I'm going to go outside.
- I blame you for this. - What? He made me.
Is that a long board?
- Yeah. - Right, come on, then, show me.
Are you sure you want to do this?
All right?
All right.
I, erm...
I'm not going to do law.
OK.
I'm going to do Spanish...
- ... in Argentina. - Mm-hm.
With Gael?
Yeah.
I'm going to go back with Gael.
But, erm, just as we are.
Just as...
... it is until we're older.
What, like, really old, like me and your dad?
No, not that old.
But not now.
Just as we are, you know, but no wedding.
Yeah.
- That sounds like a plan. - Mm.
I was actually thinking maybe...
Yeah, I could tell Dad.
- Yeah. - No.
I'm leaving that in your capable hands.
Am I too early?
No, perfect time.
I can't cook, and rumour has it you can.
Plant.
Ah. Highly unlikely to survive, but, erm...
... thank you.
They're outside.
Thank you.
Mm.
- Give it another go. - See, I... I mean, I could do that.
This? Yeah, definitely.
Come on, Dad.
- All right, don't let me go this time, OK? - That's fine.
You're letting me go. Yes, it's moving!
- That is... - That was good.
... much harder than I...
Hi.
Hey, what... ?
Hannah invited me.
- Hi. - You're just going to fall again.
No, I'm not.
You have a go, then.
See, it's harder than it looks.
- Zander... - Nothing to say.
Just keep doing what you do, Nina.
You've got a lot of money to make up.
Oh, God.
Rose.
Come in. Come in.
Rav's just out the back.
Rav, this is Rose.
Thank you.
And, erm, those rascals over there, that's Jay and there's Shrien.
Cure rascals.
Erm...
Here. Just there.
Sorry, it's a bit cold.
What can you hear?
Still ticking.
Hey.
I've thought about it, Christie.
We're walking along The High Line, and you're holding my hand,
and we're stopping for bagels,
and...
... it's not just the two of us.
Vinnie's there...
... and Liv and Tilly.
And my family are there.
I love you, Christie, I do.
But I want life, not a fantasy.
It'll never be just the two of us.
And my life's here in London with my family.
So if you want that, too...
Don't say yet, just think about it.
Well, ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for coming
on this very special occasion to share it with us.
Ruth Alice Defoe.
Forever Defoe.
I've tried over the years to be on hand.
Waiting, hoping...
... and finally,
finally, I think it's fair to say that I have won.
Finally.
I want to talk about legacy.
The myriad of memories and tiny moments that make up a life.
I want to say take care of them.
Hold them gently in your hands.
Remind yourself that nothing is promised.
That this little life of ours is less about what we've earned
and what we've gathered
and more who we've loved...
... and who we leave behind.
I've always known that it's less about the life lived...
... and more about who you live that life with.
And I'm oh, so grateful...
... that this family has let me share my life with them...
... so close by their side.
So if I might ask you to raise your glass, family,
all family.
Happy wife...
... happy life.
Happy life.
Hello and welcome to my podcast.
Today, I'm interviewing two people I know very well.
My daughter, Hannah Defoe, one of London's leading family lawyers,
and my son-in-law, Nathan Stern.
Once married, now divorced,
and I wanted to talk to them and ask them,
what is the secret to the good divorce?
They say that you never really know a man until you divorce him.
Hmm. Well, I can vouch that is true.
But no-one tells you how hard divorce really is.
And expensive.
And though we make vows to love and honour,
for better or for worse,
in sickness and in health...
... those vows are hard to keep.
Yet still we put so much score on the wedding...
... the happy ending.
The double page photo spread,
the... Instagram posts of the perfect honeymoon.
- Bye, darlings. - Bye.
I love you.
Love you, too, Grandma.
- See you soon. - And you, Ronnie.
I'll miss you.
- Bye! - Have the most wonderful time.
- Bye! Love you! - Bye!
- _ - Bye! Bye!
- Bye, Grandma! - Bye!
We forget to put as much care, as much love...
... into the way we divorce.
- Amazing day. - Mm. Here you are.
Amazing life.
It certainly cost us more.
More than any wedding, more than...
... all the memories, and the photos,
and the shared stories that we...
... lace our lives together with.
I tell my clients it's easy to marry.
What's hard is to know how to divorce.
Thank you for a lovely day.
- Kids are with us tomorrow, OK. - Uh-huh.
It already is tomorrow.
- Night-night. - Night.
- Goodnight, Hannah. - Goodnight, Mum.
So, what...
... no bad behaviour, no acrimonious mudslinging?
Oh, hell no, there's plenty of that.
But after the shouting,
after the war,
I tell my clients if they can lay down their weapons,
their accusations, their...
... resentments, their regrets...
Love you.
Love you more.
... wait for the ringing in their ears to be silenced
and for the dust to settle on what's left of their lives...
... if they can stop...
... and breathe
and listen to what life has to offer next...
Sometimes they've been battling for so long...
... they've forgotten
that... above the parapet...
... there's birdsong.
- Synced and corrected by chamallow - - www.addic7ed.com -